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  1. #651
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry...

    Shepherds were involved too...


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    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #652
    A window to the soul
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    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."

    - John 20:29 -

  3. #653
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."

    - John 20:29 -
    I was thinking about this the day before yesterday.

  4. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."

    - John 20:29 -
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I was thinking about this the day before yesterday.
    I'm not trying to discount your faith or anything, but, as a former Christian, I feel compelled to mention that, well, that passage is a phenomenal piece of circuitry to install into the brains of (potential) followers who you desire to have completely brainwashed into devoutly/blindly following your cause, regardless of its actual veracity.

    Doesn't make it any less true if the cause is true, but, well, it's still a damn effective tool, even if it's not...


  5. #655
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not trying to discount your faith or anything, but, as a former Christian, I feel compelled to mention that, well, that passage is a phenomenal piece of circuitry to install into the brains of (potential) followers who you desire to have completely brainwashed into devoutly/blindly following your cause, regardless of its actual veracity.

    Doesn't make it any less true if the cause is true, but, well, it's still a damn effective tool, even if it's not...

    Agreed. There's a silent addendum to this:

    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe (in what I'm saying, not what the other guys are telling you)."

  6. #656
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not trying to discount your faith or anything, but, as a former Christian, I feel compelled to mention that, well, that passage is a phenomenal piece of circuitry to install into the brains of (potential) followers who you desire to have completely brainwashed into devoutly/blindly following your cause, regardless of its actual veracity.

    Doesn't make it any less true if the cause is true, but, well, it's still a damn effective tool, even if it's not...

    Well it would depend on your interpretation, objectively you cant compell belief, those who experience it easily and without doubt are blessed, in the way a lottery winner could be considered blessed. Its not about trying to guilt people into believing without evidence, if you read the gospels and acts of the apostles they all required evidence, over and over and over again, even with the evidence some of them betrayed Jesus or proved human all to human when put to the test.

  7. #657
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    Agreed. There's a silent addendum to this:

    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe (in what I'm saying, not what the other guys are telling you)."
    Such cynical and modern, prolestysing version of religion. I often wonder what sort of insidious evangelising people have experienced that they are so turned off from it, its supposed to be properly understood as good news.

  8. #658
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Such cynical and modern, prolestysing version of religion. I often wonder what sort of insidious evangelising people have experienced that they are so turned off from it, its supposed to be properly understood as good news.
    I can see it from your perspective, basically, "Yay for me". But as soon as it is quoted to a non-believer the meaning changes entirely.

  9. #659
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."

    - John 20:29 -
    That is each and every believer.

  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well it would depend on your interpretation, objectively you cant compell belief, those who experience it easily and without doubt are blessed, in the way a lottery winner could be considered blessed. Its not about trying to guilt people into believing without evidence, if you read the gospels and acts of the apostles they all required evidence, over and over and over again, even with the evidence some of them betrayed Jesus or proved human all to human when put to the test.
    I cannot accept the word "blessed" being used to describe those with blind faith.

    Were the most readily believing followers of the Heaven's Gate cult blessed as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Such cynical and modern, prolestysing version of religion. I often wonder what sort of insidious evangelising people have experienced that they are so turned off from it, its supposed to be properly understood as good news.
    I believe it's the part that says "you're going to hell if you don't believe this", even though there are plenty of other religious options out there (some of which claim the very same thing [and with equal "certainty"]), but none of which can actually provide more or better evidence of their actual Divinity than any other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That is each and every believer.
    First reaction: good point.

    On second thought: nowadays at least.

    Third thought: well, if something akin to experiencing "the Holy Spirit" counts as "seeing", that would be a very important caveat.

    I happened to experience something akin to what one might call "the Holy Spirit" last night, on my yoga mat, surrounded by 20-25 other people who likely were not experiencing the same thing as me at all. This by no means happens every time I am on my yoga mat, nor, when it does happen, does it necessarily last the entire time. But what I can tell you is that each and every time it has occurred, it happens to coincide with, and, in some sense, be the sustenance and fuel for, what I could only call the greatest, most beautiful, most graceful moments of my five-plus years practicing yoga: I perform the asanas better, I breathe better, I approach perfection. For whatever reason, in the rather rare moments this occurs, I feel like I am directly communicating with God/the Universe/Being.

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