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  1. #501
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    God allows evil, but where in the bible does it show that God created evil? From my understanding, "evil" is simply a detachment from God and I imagine it has a lot to do with choice.
    Let me quote myself (because this whole thing has been discussed already): You cannot invent the game, the rules, the players and then blame them for crossing the finishing line.

  2. #502
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Evil is not a thing to be created. If anything, it's just a lack of goodness (or, replace goodness with whatever word that seems appropriate for your aesthetic. Civility, reason, decency, etc.).

  3. #503
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Evil is not a thing to be created. If anything, it's just a lack of goodness (or, replace goodness with whatever word that seems appropriate for your aesthetic. Civility, reason, decency, etc.).
    Then god created the universe or man so that they would be lacking in 'goodness'. He is all-knowing. He knew about the holocaust, too. It is, after all, his game. If he did not know, he is not all-knowing or not all-loving and, therefore, not god.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Let me quote myself (because this whole thing has been discussed already): You cannot invent the game, the rules, the players and then blame them for crossing the finishing line.
    But if the rules leave room for choice, then even God wouldn't know where the finish line is...

  5. #505
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    But if the rules leave room for choice, then even God wouldn't know where that finish line is...
    Then he is not all-knowing.

    There is also no plausible reason for him to invent mice so erroneous that they have the capability to evoke his wrath - unless, of course, he is a passionate choleric (in which case he is not all-loving).

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    If you wish for your children to love you, do you afflict them with all manners of suffering?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then he is not all-knowing.
    A PARADOX!

    Dissoi Logoi says, "He could know all possible decisions an individual will face in their life, and the effects of all possible outcomes of those decisions."

    Easy-peasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    There is also no plausible reason for him to invent mice so erroneous that they have the capability to evoke his wrath - unless, of course, he is a passionate choleric (in which case he is not all-loving).
    Hmmm... I would say that she needs the comparisons.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGL1pnm5Bqo"][/YOUTUBE]

  7. #507
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    If you wish for your children to love you, do you afflict them with all manners of suffering? No, you nurture them and build them up.



    How did evil come to be if not by gods own hand?

    Something, that is not god, created itself?
    From what I recall, man is free and chose to detach himself from God (If we are to assume that God represents all that is good.), which means it was 'self induced suffering'.

    Again, where in the bible does it show God created evil? All that is given to us is that man was tempted and man chose to give in to his temptation. It's not exactly about placing a fruit in the Garden of Eden. The object itself wasn't evil, it was man's choice to go against God that was considered a sin.

    In the end I can imagine you're thinking, "Well, then why bother?" in terms of what Aquinas was referring to, God bothered because he could only accept authentic love. After all, God is all that is true and good. God does not need us, but if we are to assume that God is all that is true and good, why should we assume he would accept anything less? (However, I guess this is resolved in the new testament?) In the case of Christianity, we inevitably end up returning to the issue of choice and God's love. In order to know love and to love, you must first be conscious of this idea of love. Second, you must choose to believe and live by it. "Evil" is when Man, who is free, does not wish to be with God or know God (all that is good). If we consider evil as not some 'independent' thing that exists outside of Man, who taunts and haunts mankind, instead understanding the nature of freedom and choice we have with God, then perhaps things will start to make sense.

    FYI: I'm not religious.

  8. #508
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    A PARADOX!

    Dissoi Logoi says, "He could know all possible decisions an individual will face in their life, and the effects of all possible outcomes of those decisions."

    Easy-peasy.
    If you are actually interested, pick it up where someone else left it: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1400798

  9. #509
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    But if the rules leave room for choice, then even God wouldn't know where the finish line is...
    Hm, I'm not sure about that. Let's say God does know (and the bible provides 'evidence' that God does indeed know.), why would this conflict with man's choice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    Hm, I'm not sure about that. Let's say God does know (and the bible provides 'evidence' that God does indeed know.), why would this conflict with man's choice?
    It can't be a true choice if the answer is predetermined, and if God knows what is going to happen, then it has already been predetermined.

    C'mon, what is this? 6th grade Bible school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If you are actually interested, pick it up where someone else left it: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1400798
    I don't argue for another man's religion.

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