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  1. #491
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    There maybe needs to be some kind of reformation that has to go thru church. I for example think there's a lot of wisdom in the bible, something like captured life experience. I too think that being open to the bible and reading it, can enable one to become more philosophical about ones own existance and maybe finetune people more to understand many ethical and moral views on the world that sometimes seem lost nowadays.

    One thing is for sure, science cant teach our society how to become more ethical , moral or social in that regards, the tools alone science uses, like logic and pragmatism are completly not qualified for this. But if religion wants to do it one day, it has to call it something else than "spiritual growth" or the "path to God" cause I just dont believe in those two (and get allergies from esoteric mumbojumbo).
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-biology/
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #492
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    What you say reminds me of Aquinas. Aquinas believed that human folly is not contingent upon God's perfection, and it is precisely because of Love. In loving man, God gave us choice. And in order to authentically love God, we must also have the choice to do it. We cannot be moderately free (ie, why doesn't God stop evil?), we are free or we are not.
    How does the ability to choose make ones love for God more 'authentic'? One must suffer, bleed and scream in the dust, by cause of their creator, in order to 'truly' love him?

    Strange.

    Not only does god allow evil, but he created it as well. This is the true original sin.

    The devil isn't that author of lies - god is. Oh my.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  3. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ...it has to call it something else than "spiritual growth" or the "path to God" cause I just dont believe in those two (and get allergies from esoteric mumbojumbo).
    That's because God and the spirit are inaccessible to NTPs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    How does the ability to choose make ones love for God more 'authentic'? One must suffer, bleed and scream in the dust, by cause of their creator, in order to 'truly' love him?

    Strange.

    Not only does god allow evil, but he created it as well. This is the true original sin.

    The devil isn't that author of lies - god is. Oh my.
    No offense, but this post sounds like a whiny child.

  4. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That's because God and the spirit are inaccessible to NTPs.

    They sure do like to think so don't they?

  5. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    They sure do like to think so don't they?
    It's mind-boggling how such a seemingly inane comment can actually hold so much truth...

  6. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's mind-boggling how such a seemingly inane comment can actually hold so much truth...
    You're right in more than one way.

  7. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You're right in more than one way. Read my rep to you.


    I would blame it on the Ti, but the INFJs are so damn spiritually inclined...

    Still, it might have to do with the positioning of the Ti...

    I would assume the TPs are a highly atheistic bunch (possibly the most so of any group of four types)...

    But, then again, I think I've read that INTJs are one of the three most likely (if not the single most likely) types to report being atheistic, so...

  8. #498
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    How does the ability to choose make ones love for God more 'authentic'? One must suffer, bleed and scream in the dust, by cause of their creator, in order to 'truly' love him?

    Strange.

    Not only does god allow evil, but he created it as well. This is the true original sin.

    The devil isn't that author of lies - god is. Oh my.
    Then would you say the inability to choose can still produce authentic love? I find that equally strange.

    God allows evil, but where in the bible does it show that God created evil? From my understanding, "evil" is simply a detachment from God and I imagine it has a lot to do with choice.

  9. #499
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No offense, but this post sounds like a whiny child.
    [Insert an equally intelligent and useless response to your response here]
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  10. #500
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    Then would you say the inability to choose can still produce authentic love? I find that equally strange.
    If you wish for your children to love you, do you afflict them with all manners of suffering? No, you nurture them and build them up.

    God allows evil, but where in the bible does it show that God created evil? From my understanding, "evil" is simply a detachment from God and I imagine it has a lot to do with choice.
    How did evil come to be if not by gods own hand?

    Something, that is not god, created itself?
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



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