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  1. #301
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I cant really follow the two of you. Ethics and morales are really no inventions religion did and whether you call it good and bad or erny and bert, does that matter ?

    It all started out back then in caves when they noticed, hitting stones on others heads does kill people and living in tribes is easier than living alone. I dont understand why I need to have faith to understand ethics and morales
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #302
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I said they have no reason to have values and that they live lives that are in contradiction with the logical conclusions of their presuppositions.
    I find good that which pleases me, which is in accordance with my arbitrary natural desires; by the same token, bad is that which I dislike. I have to let go of 'good and evil', of course, but they never did any 'good' anway.

  3. #303
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I cant really follow the two of you. Ethics and morales are really no inventions religion did and whether you call it good and bad or erny and bert, does that matter ?

    It all started out back then in caves when they noticed, hitting stones on others heads does kill people and living in tribes is easier than living alone. I dont understand why I need to have faith to understand ethics and morales
    The point is that the moral code is not binding when there is no god.

  4. #304
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I find good that which pleases me, which is in accordance with my arbitrary natural desires; by the same token, bad is that which I dislike. I have to let go of 'good and evil', of course, but they never did any 'good' anway.
    That's more consistent than most atheists.

    Christians ought to preach to themselves everyday the goodness of God and that everything good that we have comes from him.

    I wonder, do you preach to yourself every day that everything good that you experience is merely the result of chemical reactions in your brain?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #305
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The point is that the moral code is not binding when there is no god.
    Why ? I dont understand. A morale code helps us from killing each others, therefore it's binding so that anyone can survive.

    Teach me please to understand this, I am a total sucker at philosophy
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #306
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I wonder, do you preach to yourself every day that everything good that you experience is merely the result of chemical reactions in your brain?
    No, that would make me depressive. But I do know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Why ? I dont understand. A morale code helps us from killing each others, therefore it's binding so that anyone can survive.
    If god exists, the world is his state, his rules are the laws, he himself is legislative, executive and judiciary. Now his moral code is the code of law. If you violate the law, you must suffer the consequences. But if god does not exist, the state is just plain land, there are no laws and no three powers. You live in anarchy. Of course, even in an anarchic land you can follow the old law, one that you imagine to be absolute and true, but if you do not, there are no legal repercussions (no prison, no hell), because there is no right and no judge.

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

    If you kill someone in this land, others will probably dislike you, but they cannot rightfully prosecute you.

  7. #307
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If god exists, the world is his state, his rules are the laws, he himself is legislative, executive and judiciary. Now his moral code is the code of law. If you violate the law, you must suffer the consequences. But if god does not exist, the state is just plain land, there are no laws and no three powers. You live in anarchy. Of course, even in an anarchic land you can follow the old law, one that you imagine to be absolute and true, but if you do not, there are no legal repercussions (no prison, no hell), because there is no right and no judge.

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

    If you kill someone in this land, others will probably dislike you, but they cannot rightfully prosecute you.
    Wow that's crazy, thank you for explaining it. Guess you really need to believe this first, to be able to talk to this people at all. I think, if this whole religion thing was wrong from the start, just in case and nevertheless there are things like morales and ethics, the question if God exists or not exists isnt necessary at all. What then counts is what exists and what you want to continue to exist and this then are the values you support.

    I nearly didnt accomplish my Abitur due to religion, I had it as a verbal exam and achieved 1 point . Kinda unfair to discuss with those people, because they make all kind of assumptions, which you cant even make from the start. Like you said "if God doesnt exist, I live in anarchy" what would absolutely not be the case in the real world, if he wouldnt exist.

    So long, dont discuss too long here, this really crazy
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #308
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    P.S.: I think there is hope in quantum physics for people who believe in determinism and therefore havent arrived in the new century of physics after Newton. I tho am still pissed that physics are so often misused for philosophy. I'll never get used to that
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #309
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    So long, dont discuss too long here, this really crazy
    Hah, no offense entropie, but this really made me laugh. The response was priceless, especially from an NT.

  10. #310
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Care to elaborate, cause I didnt understand again ?!
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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