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  1. #171
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    The comviction that you need divine laws and consequences to avoid utter deaster is pretty misanthropic.
    No actually it isn't, it actually teaches man to proper humility in regards to his own fallibility. After all from the Christian perspective, man is made in God's image, and as a result has an inherent dignity given to him. Hardly a misanthropic concept. There is such a thing as Theocentric Humanism btw.
    - the obvious problems of a literal interpretation of scripture (or, if you step away from that, as most do today, of drawing the line to determine exactly how much freedom there can be in exegesis...some of it like the depth psychology exegesis of people like Drewermann is very liberal indeed).
    Ok, but perhaps it should be noted that the vast Christian tradition has never adopted a literalist interpretation of scriptures to begin with. Allegorical interpretations of scriptures go back at least to the 1st Century B.C. Jewish philosopher Philo for example. Literalist interpretations are actually a by-product of modern times, as contrasted with the rather relaxed attitude of Medieval times. It was this laxed attitude that many of the Protestant reformers reacted against and rejected. Point being, as I've argued before, secularism and fundamentalism are largely two-sides of the same coin.

  2. #172
    Sniffles
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    Here's a further summary of how Christian traditionally interpreted scriptures, as laid by one of the Church Fathers:
    [youtube="BR0qnfKAFYY"]St. Augustine on scriptures[/youtube]

  3. #173

  4. #174
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I never understand why people who don't believe in the Bible as absolute word of God, then go back and reference the Bible in their proof that God doesn't exist...and do so by quoting the Bible "God says he created man in his image." We don't know God said that! We don't know what God said or didn't say because humans wrote the Christian Bible. Proof that the Bible is illogical is just that, proof that the Bible is illogical, it says nothing in favor or against a God or Gods existing at all.
    Man created God in his image.
    Does God exist?

    An interspace void has a temperature.
    An outerspace void has a temperature?
    No.
    Why?
    A void does not outerspace.

  5. #175
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    God is dead.
    Didnt you get the whole resurrection memo?

  6. #176
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I dunno... I didn't read the whole thread because it was signifigantly longer than my attention span, but I have issues with the Christian God because he spends a good majority of the Bible being a total bastard... wars, plagues, burning down cities and the Apocalypse aren't my ideas of nice behavior- I can't feel comfortable putting my faith in any deity who's that big of a prick- sorry

    and no- the new testament version doesn't completely cancel the old testament/revalations version out- I can't get the smiting out of my head
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #177
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Do you know the chemical reaction that set off the Big Bang?

    No?

    So I guess we don't need to be able to understand things to believe that they exist
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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  8. #178
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    God is dead.
    and no one cares

  9. #179
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I dunno... I didn't read the whole thread because it was signifigantly longer than my attention span, but I have issues with the Christian God because he spends a good majority of the Bible being a total bastard... wars, plagues, burning down cities and the Apocalypse aren't my ideas of nice behavior- I can't feel comfortable putting my faith in any deity who's that big of a prick- sorry

    and no- the new testament version doesn't completely cancel the old testament/revalations version out- I can't get the smiting out of my head
    I like your quote about the thread being longer than your attention span, that made me laugh.

    I've got to say that I dont recognise the Christian God in what you're saying here, perhaps you're familiar with the whole idea through or from secondary sources and not the bible or Christian literature at all?

    In the new testament God when he is talked about as a seperate entity from Jesus is a pretty forgiving deity, slow to anger, quick to forgive, likewise in the books of revelation, book of James, chapter thirteen of Mark which are all the references which I can think of which deal with apocalypse, they describe horrible things happening but they are a consequence of the actions of demons or men, not God.

    In fact the only explicit mention of judgement which I recall is in Matthew and it details Jesus talking about the flip side of failing to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, ie that he'll reward those individuals as they rewarded him when he was in need and they shunned him, to me that's just desserts and not too terrible.

    I'm much less of an authority on the old testament, although I can see a progressive revelation taking place, in which it appears that either God or Man or perhaps both in unison are under going progressive revelation about one another and developing as a consequence. Its pretty complex and I cant recall it verbatim but Jung talks about something like this in his Answer To Job book.

    To be honest the Christian God is one of the only deities to have experienced incarnation as a man, suffered pretty much the worst life had to offer and one of the worst deaths I can imagine, whether you have total insight into the existence of an afterlife or not (which I actually dont believe Jesus had being true God and true man and crying out that God had abandoned him on the cross) that's some excurciating shit there. To me that pretty much pays for any suffering which God may have visited upon mankind or any all to human accusations of caprice or callousness at creation per se or the tragedy of mortal existence (life being too short and too full of misery), not that that was necessary.

    It makes the Christian story appear more plausible to me than other religions because it answers certain questions, although they are perhaps human, all too human questions, about why a deity would bother with creation at all because is not a process of divine design or even divine accident which has resulted in creation but creation is something which God is actively engaged with, in each of us, in everything but especially in the one complete incarnation which was Jesus Christ.

  10. #180
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggletron View Post
    and no one cares
    Its a good thing the same thing cant be said for God, if he stopped caring then pretty much everything else would stop too.

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