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Thread: Lent 2015

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Lent 2015

    What are you doing to observe Lent 2015 if you are religiously observant of Lent and Easter?

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Many people view Lent as a time of self-denial, and speak in terms of what they are going to give up for Lent. It always seemed silly to me to give something up just for the sake of it. I am fine with self-sacrifice, but prefer it directly benefits others in some way. In this spirit, I tend to look for what I can do for others during lent: perhaps a random act of kindness each day, or working on being nicer or more considerate to specific people that I feel I have ignored or perhaps have a conflicted relationship with.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Many people view Lent as a time of self-denial, and speak in terms of what they are going to give up for Lent. It always seemed silly to me to give something up just for the sake of it. I am fine with self-sacrifice, but prefer it directly benefits others in some way. In this spirit, I tend to look for what I can do for others during lent: perhaps a random act of kindness each day, or working on being nicer or more considerate to specific people that I feel I have ignored or perhaps have a conflicted relationship with.
    In many ways I agree with you, and when I have tried that periodically in the past I have found just how difficult it is, you start out doing random acts of kindness and then your realise its all been different sorts of financial transactions, like filling the meter for someone when its going to run out or paying for a suspended coffee for someone, then you try and do ones which are not financial in nature. Its not easy.

    I like the idea of trying to change patterns of behaviour for the better and at the very least modelling the sort of behaviour you would like to see in the world, being the change you would like to see, although some of that, for me as a believer, is the mark of a post-Nietzschean/Existentialist world. Perhaps the after life was used to deprive people of life in the here and now, all "pie in the sky" promises, literally, but it can go too far in the other direction too.

    I've not reached any final conclusions about all this but I tend to think that some of the older, oldest maybe, spiritual disciplines in their recommendation that you adjust so as to minimise your material desires or try to switch from the having to the being mode of living, are spot on. Whether there is an after life or not.

    Then again its not easy to know, many a virtue was turned into a vice in its pursuit.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    There is much wisdom in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In many ways I agree with you, and when I have tried that periodically in the past I have found just how difficult it is, you start out doing random acts of kindness and then your realise its all been different sorts of financial transactions, like filling the meter for someone when its going to run out or paying for a suspended coffee for someone, then you try and do ones which are not financial in nature. Its not easy.
    Interesting. I agree about it not becoming all financial, but don't seem to have trouble finding other ways to show kindness. I might offer to do a job at work that no one likes but has to be done, like put out the lab trash. Or I might write a note (actual paper snail-mail note) to someone I haven't been in touch with for awhile, or give someone a ride somewhere, or do an extra volunteer activity. It can be hard to find one for every single day, then again I might do several on one day, say write several letters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I like the idea of trying to change patterns of behaviour for the better and at the very least modelling the sort of behaviour you would like to see in the world, being the change you would like to see, although some of that, for me as a believer, is the mark of a post-Nietzschean/Existentialist world. Perhaps the after life was used to deprive people of life in the here and now, all "pie in the sky" promises, literally, but it can go too far in the other direction too.
    The promise of the afterlife has often been used by those in power to manage the expectations of the disadvantaged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    've not reached any final conclusions about all this but I tend to think that some of the older, oldest maybe, spiritual disciplines in their recommendation that you adjust so as to minimise your material desires or try to switch from the having to the being mode of living, are spot on. Whether there is an after life or not.

    Then again its not easy to know, many a virtue was turned into a vice in its pursuit.
    Too much of a good thing? There is definite value in the highlighted. It is a much better way to view what often is protrayed as simple self-denial, in that it focuses on the benefit to the person taking on the discipline. It also ties in with many meditation practices I know of. I used to meditate rather regularly; perhaps this Lent I should work on reestablishing the habit.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I have used giving up something as a way to remind myself of a character change I'm currently working to cultivate.

    So giving up junk food... when I am craving potato chips or snickers and then DONT eat it, I can use that moment of awareness as a reminder to check in with myself about my efforts to be more cognizant of the needs of others, offering my help or comfort where they can be of use.

    I don't know if it's symbolic or not. But it is I guess an outward reminder of an inward change.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.
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    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I did enough lent and easter as a kid and really never got to decide what i gave up it was always meat. though the church it's meat,dairy, and eggs, seafood, and olive oil and alcohol except certain days we could do olive oil, wine, and seafood such as sundays cuz of eucharist kind of have to allow wine then . So i think if i feel like i don't like a person or just because I might consume the things the person is giving up for lent.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    There is much wisdom in this post.


    Interesting. I agree about it not becoming all financial, but don't seem to have trouble finding other ways to show kindness. I might offer to do a job at work that no one likes but has to be done, like put out the lab trash. Or I might write a note (actual paper snail-mail note) to someone I haven't been in touch with for awhile, or give someone a ride somewhere, or do an extra volunteer activity. It can be hard to find one for every single day, then again I might do several on one day, say write several letters.
    If I was being picky I'd say that the note writing or lift giving take fuel or paper and pen so its some sort of resource transfer again but I see what you mean. The thing about doing the unpleasant work for a change is interesting, and useful, I've periodically done that too but I've realised, that especially in a work environment, you could be enabling slackers or competency challenged people to carry on like there's not a problem or creating an expectation that never existed before. Its a difficult one but I know what you mean, its a worthy goal. I could write a book about the hard and long thinking I've done about altruism, in many ways I despise organised and planned selfishness and most organised and planned altruism the same for very different reasons.

    The promise of the afterlife has often been used by those in power to manage the expectations of the disadvantaged.
    That's true but its been part of the expectation of the managers too, Nietzsche was one of the first to articulate the idea of being life affirming, in other words THIS life affirming, so that you should not forego any pleasure or describe any pleasure as sinful which is itself a pleasure. So far so good. Although a lot of the aphorisms and thinking which stem from it can be very wicked, it oft quoted saying for instance from him that "its better to seek forgiveness than permission" is a rapists charter, I know of more than one instance when someone who was an actual rapist had heard it and believed it. Nietzsche's supporters or defenders would say that he wouldnt possibly have endorsed such an outcome of his thinking, maybe that's true but I can see how it is a logical extension of his thinking.

    That said I do support the life affirming ideas for the most part, although in the main because of older religious traditions, such as the judeo-christian which maintain that life is a gift, that the world is a gift, that the world was, is and will one day be restored as paradise and that God's judgement will not simply involve punishing evil doing but questioning why anyone has forgone the pleasure of life which has been provided to them and for them or prayers answered.

    Too much of a good thing? There is definite value in the highlighted. It is a much better way to view what often is protrayed as simple self-denial, in that it focuses on the benefit to the person taking on the discipline. It also ties in with many meditation practices I know of. I used to meditate rather regularly; perhaps this Lent I should work on reestablishing the habit.
    I do surely think that discipline has a part in it, effort especially so, its possible to get addicted to the easy life and then when the disillusion follows it to confuse the easy life with life per se.

    Russell talks about that in The Conquest of Happiness, he describes it as Byronic Unhappiness, although Russell wouldnt have had any truck with religion or spirituality.

    Meditation and centring exercises would definitely have something to do with it too, especially in so far as it results in altered states of consciousness, raised awareness etc.

    The whole question of being and having is an old one, Fromm actually suggested that the being mode was the way to go but in most of his writing and those he was drawing on as primary sources, would suggest that its something its only possible to partially realise as an individual while social structures like the economy, education, the family, work etc. etc. all seek, consciously and unconsciously, to foster the having one instead.

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    I'm giving up religion for lent.
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    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    I'm giving up religion for lent.
    just for lent

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    I'm giving up religion for lent.
    just for lent
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    I'm giving up cats for lent.





















    just kidding
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

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