• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

I wish the world would stop glorying in flat affect

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I remember growing up and I remember the extent to which it seemed that flat affect was the expected norm out of everyone, no joy, no sadness, you were meant to appear "hard" or "hardened" to pretty much all circumstances, good or bad, now I believe this is exaggerated by some social class conexts and perhaps its a response to people who have been treated badly, know they have been and probably treat others badly in turn too. Also I know NI is a "post-conflict" society too (although there's as much violent crime and shootings and probably attendent trauma in the US in some urban centres as there was in NI during the "troubles").

Still I've been talking to some professionals working with kids from a range of backgrounds, cultural and national contexts and even some from pretty rich or affluent backgrounds too, who all exhibit a similar conception of "cool" which resounds with this kind of thing, this kind of expectation.

This is really, really damaging, particularly to children in the first years of life who are developing attachments which will govern their understanding and relationships for the complete life cycle.

In the bible it says "harden not your heart" and Fromm wrote books on this whole idea, its not something people reflect on much. Or so I think. What do you guys think?
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
I remember growing up and I remember the extent to which it seemed that flat affect was the expected norm out of everyone, no joy, no sadness, you were meant to appear "hard" or "hardened" to pretty much all circumstances, good or bad, now I believe this is exaggerated by some social class conexts and perhaps its a response to people who have been treated badly, know they have been and probably treat others badly in turn too. Also I know NI is a "post-conflict" society too (although there's as much violent crime and shootings and probably attendent trauma in the US in some urban centres as there was in NI during the "troubles").

Still I've been talking to some professionals working with kids from a range of backgrounds, cultural and national contexts and even some from pretty rich or affluent backgrounds too, who all exhibit a similar conception of "cool" which resounds with this kind of thing, this kind of expectation.

This is really, really damaging, particularly to children in the first years of life who are developing attachments which will govern their understanding and relationships for the complete life cycle.

In the bible it says "harden not your heart" and Fromm wrote books on this whole idea, its not something people reflect on much. Or so I think. What do you guys think?

It is certainly a common psychological defence mechanism. It's purpose is to hide our feelings, not only from others, but also from ourselves.

So we might ask what are we defending against? And how does this particular psychological defence mechanism help us manipulate others?

And we need to point out that dissolving our psychological defence mechanisms is necessary to set us on the path of empathy and creativity.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Being sincere about emotions gives you a disadvantage in life. Which I'm not condoning or condemning, just stating.

There are so many who exploit the emotional openness of others. And it's tied up with all those problems humans seem to share across the context of cultures, races...etc....Problems of fear and projection and pride....especially the image we want to appear as, the image we actually appear as and the fragility of identity.

One of the more negative effects is that people confuse common problems with common solutions, or more precisely: common methods of dealing. There is a lyric from a song that I think sums up the point:

"Deaf, dumb, and blind, you just keep on pretending
That everyone's expendable and no-one has a real friend.
And it seems to you the thing to do would be to isolate the winner
And everything's done under the sun,
And you believe at heart, everyone's a killer."

But as usual its the how you deal with those common issues that's important, not the what of them existing in the first place. People are not all the same with regards to influences and experiences, but their problems often are...albeit heavily disguised.

I think sometimes we could all do with lessons in vulnerability. But, words are cheap I need to start practicing what I preach.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Being sincere about emotions gives you a disadvantage in life. Which I'm not condoning or condemning, just stating.

I agree with that. And it isn't about treating/being treated badly. I treat people very well, it just doesn't come along with an emotional response or cause me to have empathy to the point of feeling their misery myself. But I have heard that I need to change the way I think and approach things, in terms of emotions, my entire life. *shrug*
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
I agree with that. And it isn't about treating/being treated badly. I treat people very well, it just doesn't come along with an emotional response or cause me to have empathy to the point of feeling their misery myself. But I have heard that I need to change the way I think and approach things, in terms of emotions, my entire life. *shrug*

It probably depends on whether or not that actually causes any major issues in your life and relations to others, although whether or not you would care is up to you. Especially since people can be pretty arrogant about their emotions and extreme emotionalism is usually a negative.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
It probably depends on whether or not that actually causes any major issues in your life and relations to others. Especially since people can be pretty arrogant about their emotions and extreme emotionalism is usually a negative.

It doesn't. I have embraced vulnerability with a handful of people and I think that's plenty. You grow emotionally from that and with the right people, it can contribute to a rich relationship and life. I agree with that completely. It's this notion that emotions should be governed less, in general and if you don't, you have the problem.
 

Qlip

Post Human Post
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
8,464
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think some of this was generational style, GenX and what not, at least in the U.S. I find that the current generation is a lot more expressive, sometimes in an overly affective, and insincere way; it is still too dangerous to be completely open. There are definite trade-offs.
 

Chthonic

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
Being sincere about emotions gives you a disadvantage in life. Which I'm not condoning or condemning, just stating.

I agree and it's not just about being exploited, although few things will say naive to others faster than an honest expression of emotion. But generally others don't like to hear emoting, it's frowned upon, particularly if that emoting is negative in nature. In a kind of....don't bring your misery near me, you're bringing me down. attitude. I'm not sure why this is, but I tend to believe it's because it's perceived as some kind of emotional load that others don't appreciate or perhaps they feel that someone expressing is a call to action, wanting others to solve their problems.

On the positive emotion spectrum, say in love relationships, people are reluctant to openly display emotion through fear of rejection and also a lot of social programming about treating human relationships as some kind of game.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
For a couple years (maybe even as many as 10) , I tried engaging in complete emotional openness (contrary to my nature), and it did not go well. People are adverse to being around negative emotions, and would prefer to not know that they exist. Positive emotions can also get you in trouble, too, if they aren't in sync and aren't about the things you're "supposed to" feel positive about. It's socially very risky to passionate about something. There are rewards for conforming to a group, and punishments for not conforming.


I think being open emotionally is all well and good if you feel that your sentiments coincide with popular ones, with the group (or if you deflect them into popular ones), but if they're more individualized, people have a problem with it. It seems that they can't quite decide whether you're a friend or an enemy, and the default response tends to be to place you into the category of enemy.

Furthermore, there is a downside, from a humanitarian standpoint, of emotional openness. Is aggression, in your experience, a purely logical phenomenon, or is there an emotional component? What about prejudice? Vengeance?
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
I think being open emotionally is all well and good if you feel that your sentiments coincide with popular ones, with the group (or if you deflect them into popular ones), but if they're more individualized, people have a problem with it. It seems that they can't quite decide whether you're a friend or an enemy, and the default response tends to be to place you into the category of enemy.

I am fortunate enough to be able to share my sense of humour with strangers all during the day.

To be successful and get a laugh my humour has to be spontaneous, and it also has to match the circumstances and the mood of the other person or persons.

Occasionally my humour doesn't work and I am embarrassed. And it doesn't work when I am not spontaneous and fail to match the circumstances and the mood.

But mostly it is a little bit of magic during the day.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
So we might ask what are we defending against? And how does this particular psychological defence mechanism help us manipulate others?
It is more to prevent others from manipulating us. As others have mentioned, emotional openness with close friends or intimate partners may be well and good, but with the entire world it is ill-advised.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I speak in a flat affect to honor the King...the one and true king...the king of the Spartans, King Leonidas.

And then I scream, "THIS IS SPARTA" and spank my hand in the air. I go from 0 to 360mph and I do it 100 like Chief Keef!
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
It is more to prevent others from manipulating us. As others have mentioned, emotional openness with close friends or intimate partners may be well and good, but with the entire world it is ill-advised.

Sounds to me like a paranoid psychological defence mechanism. The result is to cut us off from our own feelings and the feelings of the world.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
I speak in a flat affect to honor the King...the one and true king...the king of the Spartans, King Leonidas.

And then I scream, "THIS IS SPARTA" and spank my hand in the air. I go from 0 to 360mph and I do it 100 like Chief Keef!

The Spartans left absolutely no culture behind, quite unlike the Athenians who founded Western culture.

Sparta was a culture of death, while Athens was and is a culture of life.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
The Spartans left absolutely no culture behind, quite unlike the Athenians who founded Western culture.

Sparta was a culture of death, while Athens was and is a culture of life.

What about Chief Keef. What do you think of him?
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Sounds to me like a paranoid psychological defence mechanism. The result is to cut us off from our own feelings and the feelings of the world.
I don't see how keeping one's feelings to oneself cuts oneself off from them. Quite the contrary. It gives one the space and shelter to figure out what they really mean, rather than having the analysis colored by the projections and agendas of others.
 

Femonique

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
1
Good Grief! All this speculation! Feel what ya feel and stop giving a care what others think, what you were taught, or even what ya see others doing. Be true to your nature and who ya are. If more people were honest, felt their feelings, let go of the ones that don't feel good at any given moment and when they're done with them, then reveled in the ones that felt better. There wouldn't be all this depression, anxiety, and whatnot. The world is full of enough lies so why add to it when you can obviously see, as evidenced by the thread, that holding back doesn't feel like it's meant to be. Break free of the "norm" and be who you are, it's very liberating! We are meant to feel, or we wouldn't have the capability.
 
Top