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  1. #11
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I have heard from a reputable source that their allah is an unapproachable sort of god whom they must do things like suicide bombing to get the attention of, or to get into heaven.
    No I think that's the old testament god you are confusing him with. I mean Jesus's father.

    tehe
    .

  2. #12
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    "Posted ... YouTube"

    All I needed to know.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Seriously, its no wonder that people are turning into fundamentalism when the world is filled with retards like this..
    Yeah, it's sad how many people don't realize how hatred is one big feedback loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    "Posted ... YouTube"

    All I needed to know.
    Also yes. The term 'lowest common denominator' comes to mind when reading YouTube comments.

  4. #14

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    I dont think people are influenced by shit online.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think people are influenced by shit online.
    I think people are influenced by many things. Most of all influenced heavily by an emotionally fearful state and then it becomes a fight or flight situation in their own minds. Once there nearly anything seems justifiable. Any ideology that offers to control everyone else for me, so I can feel better, is an ideology I steer clear away from. Plenty of those to be found in every direction and corner of the globe in a great many area's of life.

    Somehow, humanity is still of a mindset that forcing everyone into the same box is the ultimate objective.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I think people are influenced by many things. Most of all influenced heavily by an emotionally fearful state and then it becomes a fight or flight situation in their own minds. Once there nearly anything seems justifiable. Any ideology that offers to control everyone else for me, so I can feel better, is an ideology I steer clear away from. Plenty of those to be found in every direction and corner of the globe in a great many area's of life.

    Somehow, humanity is still of a mindset that forcing everyone into the same box is the ultimate objective.
    Totalitarianism of any description is wrong, its not essentially the coercion and threat of police states and that kind of thing.

    Even if it were on a individual scale, just one single individual choosing to submit themselves by themselves to totalising strictures, its usually a demanding process which can backfire totally and utterly driving the individual in question crazy.

    So I figure that a lot of individuals who seek to introduce it all on a collective basis are not able to conform to their own demanding strictures and they know it so they wind up trying to control others to compensate for their own knowledge or suspiscions and doubts about themselves.

    Its individually and socially destructive but that's if you're even dealing with someone who is rational or reasonable at all, most of it is all fuelled by hatred or emoting anyway. Loved in groups and hated out groups. A total waste of time talking to any of them or attempting to open a dialogue with any of them.

    I used to think differently about that, I posted lots of counter points online for the attention of people I figured hadnt thought their beliefs out, figured that even if they were unreachable then some randomer who may see it could think twice. It was all a waste of time, I believe, now, and those were just your common or garden liberals and not proper bad guys like most of those jihadists are.

  7. #17
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    So here is the op, which i aimed at potential new extremists(which the guy anjem choudary pretty much tries to recruit), so that they would think again about this stuff and maybe change their minds:



    Just to clarify, that guy wants to have sharia law in UK and then in the whole world.

    I dont really believe 100% in all i said or at least i didnt say the whole truth of my views, because i wanted it to be more convincing.

    And the responses i get.. oh god. First of all its been 4 months since i posted this and no replies from muslims. Instead i get stuff like this:






    ^that particular aussie boy(yes his acco really is aussie boy) has profile photo where he is posing with a gun in soldiers uniform.



    Seriously, its no wonder that people are turning into fundamentalism when the world is filled with retards like this..

    I just wanted to post this so that you guys could see hat muslims have to deal with in their lives, that people saying this sort of stuff is exactly why the popularity of extremism in islam in gaining strength in other countries than just muslim countries. And that you could see that saying this sort of stuff really is the wrong way dealing with this, when people should spread understanding and love, not ignorance and hatred..
    Hmm, perhaps you fail at trolling here. There is also a long-standing history not only of violence against non-Muslims; but of violence between Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims : neither of whom are "non-Muslims" so that situation acts as a control variable, as it were.

    Further, the idea of a monolithic hatred of Muslims by the outside world is utterly laughable: from President Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who insult the prophet"
    (source: Remarks by the President to the UN General Assembly | The White House) in his official capacity as President, to the deliberate blind eye turned by authorities in Yorkshire to the sexual abuse and torture of pubescent girls by Pakistani immigrants (e.g. teenage girls being doused with petrol and threatened with being burned alive if they told others of their sexual abuse)...not to mention the deafening silence from women's rights activists about forced clitorectomies...
    or to mention the Islamists in Iran executing homosexuals by hanging, or by throwing them off of buildings. For some reason, the American left prefers to pelt Catholic Bishops with condoms, rather than confront open, explicit, filmed executions of homosexuals.

    Or, if you want to control for the variable of *time*...recall that Islam started in the 600s. Prapagandists or know-nothings like to portray the Crusades as wild-eyed fanatical Christians laying waste to peaceful Muslims seeking only to mind their own business-- when in fact the situation was nearly the exact *opposite*: Islam was founded in (roughly) AD 600 in the Middle East: and yet, recall that the Muslims were defeated *militarily* in FRANCE -- quite far away from the Middle East -- in the Battle of Tours in 732. (Thank you Charles Martel !)
    In other words, about 300 years after the sack of Rome by the Visigoths, the Muslims were trying to take over France. Long, long before the Crusades.

    And recall also, nearly a THOUSAND years later, the Ottoman Empire (again, Muslim) nearly overran VIENNA -- you know, home at one time or another, to Brahms, Beethoven, Haydn, and Mozart -- in 1683, being stopped by the Poles (thank you Jan Sobieski !)

    Let that sink in, mmm'kay?

    732 -- the Muslims have taken Spain and nearly overrun France.
    1683 -- the Muslims nearly overrun Vienna. This is AFTER, for instance, Columbus, AFTER Martin Luther, AFTER Shakespeare, AFTER the Pilgrims land a Plymouth Rock.
    Aw, Hell, get this. AFTER the founding of Harvard. Yes, the *real* Harvard.


    Oh -- you might also want to note. ISIS/ISIL taking captives as ransom, is hardly a new thing in Islam. You may recall -- or not -- the US Marine Corps anthem...
    "From the halls of Montezuma
    to the shores of Tripoli..."

    That latter, the shores of Tripoli -- refers to the Barbary Pirates.

    These were pirates of Muslim outposts in Northern Africa, who captured merchant vessels and ransomed or sold the crews as slaves. In 1795, Algeria ransomed 115 captured Americans, for over $1 *million*. Yes, in 1795 dollars. This was about 1/6 of the entire US government budget at the time.
    The continuing, hmm, "peskiness" of the Barbary states, was what led to the formation of the US Navy.

    One or two more tidbits.

    In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

    It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.

    Ummm. Yeah.

    THAT Thomas Jefferson.
    You know, The Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self evident..." and all that stuff.

    Hardly a Medieval dead-and-gone thing.

    NOTE: some of this material was copied from Wikipedia (The details on the Barbary Pirates, for example, tho' I knew of their existence and Jefferson having dealt with them, on my own); some paraphrased, some knowledge of my own.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  8. #18
    is indra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Yeah, it's sad how many people don't realize how hatred is one big feedback loop.
    And yet, you do not cut the audio in a performance. You dampen a string. You rock your body back. You turn the gain down from 11.

    But the show must go on.

  9. #19
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I think people are influenced by many things. Most of all influenced heavily by an emotionally fearful state and then it becomes a fight or flight situation in their own minds. Once there nearly anything seems justifiable. Any ideology that offers to control everyone else for me, so I can feel better, is an ideology I steer clear away from. Plenty of those to be found in every direction and corner of the globe in a great many area's of life.

    Somehow, humanity is still of a mindset that forcing everyone into the same box is the ultimate objective.
    Good point on the fearful state: I don't know quite how to say this tactfully, but...
    given that jihadist are, ummm, *terrorists*.
    Doesn't that imply the possibility that they go around recruiting others in their own neighborhoods or cities or countries, by terrorizing their own neighbors?
    ("Go attack the Americans or we will kill *your* family!")

    And -- given things like "The Hatfields and the McCoys" (blood feuds in the older United States) -- is it possible some of the violence is a larger form of that, in countries
    with extended families, and clans, and the honor of the family being all important?

    ...and, that old standby, many young men without meaningful life prospects. That's the charge leveled so often at members of the US military (as John Kerry said, "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.") So maybe the same thing happens in other places: if you're born in the right place, you have connections; otherwise...well, what other choice do you have?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Hmm, perhaps you fail at trolling here. There is also a long-standing history not only of violence against non-Muslims; but of violence between Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims : neither of whom are "non-Muslims" so that situation acts as a control variable, as it were.

    Further, the idea of a monolithic hatred of Muslims by the outside world is utterly laughable: from President Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who insult the prophet"
    (source: Remarks by the President to the UN General Assembly | The White House) in his official capacity as President, to the deliberate blind eye turned by authorities in Yorkshire to the sexual abuse and torture of pubescent girls by Pakistani immigrants (e.g. teenage girls being doused with petrol and threatened with being burned alive if they told others of their sexual abuse)...not to mention the deafening silence from women's rights activists about forced clitorectomies...
    or to mention the Islamists in Iran executing homosexuals by hanging, or by throwing them off of buildings. For some reason, the American left prefers to pelt Catholic Bishops with condoms, rather than confront open, explicit, filmed executions of homosexuals.

    Or, if you want to control for the variable of *time*...recall that Islam started in the 600s. Prapagandists or know-nothings like to portray the Crusades as wild-eyed fanatical Christians laying waste to peaceful Muslims seeking only to mind their own business-- when in fact the situation was nearly the exact *opposite*: Islam was founded in (roughly) AD 600 in the Middle East: and yet, recall that the Muslims were defeated *militarily* in FRANCE -- quite far away from the Middle East -- in the Battle of Tours in 732. (Thank you Charles Martel !)
    In other words, about 300 years after the sack of Rome by the Visigoths, the Muslims were trying to take over France. Long, long before the Crusades.

    And recall also, nearly a THOUSAND years later, the Ottoman Empire (again, Muslim) nearly overran VIENNA -- you know, home at one time or another, to Brahms, Beethoven, Haydn, and Mozart -- in 1683, being stopped by the Poles (thank you Jan Sobieski !)

    Let that sink in, mmm'kay?

    732 -- the Muslims have taken Spain and nearly overrun France.
    1683 -- the Muslims nearly overrun Vienna. This is AFTER, for instance, Columbus, AFTER Martin Luther, AFTER Shakespeare, AFTER the Pilgrims land a Plymouth Rock.
    Aw, Hell, get this. AFTER the founding of Harvard. Yes, the *real* Harvard.


    Oh -- you might also want to note. ISIS/ISIL taking captives as ransom, is hardly a new thing in Islam. You may recall -- or not -- the US Marine Corps anthem...
    "From the halls of Montezuma
    to the shores of Tripoli..."

    That latter, the shores of Tripoli -- refers to the Barbary Pirates.

    These were pirates of Muslim outposts in Northern Africa, who captured merchant vessels and ransomed or sold the crews as slaves. In 1795, Algeria ransomed 115 captured Americans, for over $1 *million*. Yes, in 1795 dollars. This was about 1/6 of the entire US government budget at the time.
    The continuing, hmm, "peskiness" of the Barbary states, was what led to the formation of the US Navy.

    One or two more tidbits.

    In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

    It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.

    Ummm. Yeah.

    THAT Thomas Jefferson.
    You know, The Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self evident..." and all that stuff.

    Hardly a Medieval dead-and-gone thing.

    NOTE: some of this material was copied from Wikipedia (The details on the Barbary Pirates, for example, tho' I knew of their existence and Jefferson having dealt with them, on my own); some paraphrased, some knowledge of my own.
    I dont have a slightest clue what your point is. But the violence is not religious by nature, its cultural. Christians have done equally bad(if not worse) things in the past than muslims have, so talking about history makes no sense either. Also not all muslims are alike, just like not all who believe in jesus are alike(reading between the lines it looks as if you are trying to over generalize the muslim population).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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