The Purpose of Evil

[indra]

Even our Suns consume.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

"the purpose of evil is always batman" - Batman's psychologist.

 

[Coriolis]

I think that's a virtuous dichotomy though, at least if you conceive as good as the "thing itself" and evil as its "shadow", good is therefore positive and evil the inferior negative. Anything else is manichean equivalence or equality assumed between the two opposites.

I don't understand your point in the highlighted. Based on what is often considered evil, evil can often be "the thing" and good its absence. In that sense, good and evil are equal and opposite, like the north and south poles of a magnet.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Evil is not neccesary.

The statement evil is neccesary to appreciate the good is a flawed statement. Even though it seems to ring true. But there are plenty of cases where good is appreciated even in the absence of evil.

What is neccesary is the ability to recognize wrong and right. This is in part based on ones own ability to process information and in part due to upbringing and environment.

The problem is manipulation, misinformation and irrationality. None of which are neccesarily evil at the core.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

If Good exists, then the absence of Good must exist and that is Evil.

If Evil and Good exist...then they exist whether we do or not.

If this is true...Nature is Good an Evil, and since we are products of nature, thereby have Good and Evil in us.

This reminds me of the idea of a kings and aristocracy. People think that a monarchy was the invention of people, but people cannot invent anything. Nature invents things through us. We are not separate from nature in any biological sense...the idea that mankind can do something apart from the earth is a false dichotomy. If we leave this earth and destroy it in the process, that was nature's way...and we are like sperm flying off the planet...that analogy is much more accurate than the false dichotomy.

But the point here that I'm trying to make is that evil is as natural as anything else.

If we look at aristocracy, and how a privliged few can learn while the rest of us must serve, at that point in time, that was the product of nature.

nature is not a democracy, and nature is not fair.

And this is why people argue humans have a divine soul which is greater than the physical nature since we have the ability to be fair and just...nature is not fair and just at all.

This seems like I'm saying we're separate from nature and creating another false dichotomy. But I'm not. I'm saying we are souls, in bodies that are not separate from nature, and that this idea or notion, not premise or argument, is the foundation upon which justice is built.

Arguing about it is pointless. This what we all believe unconsciously or consciously - don't argue with me because you're really just arguing with yourself.

Also, note...I did not create a false dichotomy by saying the soul is greater than the physical manifestation for the two are one in the same in one regard but different in another...and thereby not split, but overlapping, hence no false dichotomy.

It's kind of like what [MENTION=22109]Evee[/MENTION] said about apollo and dionysius. On one hand we have the Apollonians who believe in perfect order and refuse the existence of soul and non-linear progress...then we have the dionysions who are all about that chaos. If one aligns with apollo, he is unconcious of his dionysian aspect...and if one aligns with dionysius he is unconcious of his appolonian aspect...but no person is one ore the other...everyone has both...everyone is aware and unaware...no one is exempt from the natural process.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Evil is not necessary. It is a maladaptive way of dealing with feelings of personal fear, vulnerability and loss of power. It is a perceived short cut to feeling powerful and in control of one's life when a healthy sense of self, purpose, and power have been taken away, often through being violated in some manner. Being sadistic is a way to prove to oneself that one can exert control over another person. It is a useless behavior when there is nothing that needs proving.

 

[AOA]

Basically, I know it.

 

[Lark]

I don't understand your point in the highlighted. Based on what is often considered evil, evil can often be "the thing" and good its absence. In that sense, good and evil are equal and opposite, like the north and south poles of a magnet.

Yeah, my point is that they are not equal, that is a manichean way of looking at things and I dont subscribe to it, there is no equivalence between good and evil because evil is always inferior to good, even in the example you give of omissions it is the abscence of something, something good.

 

[Jaguar]

If Good exists, then the absence of Good must exist and that is Evil.

Would you also claim, "If Love exists, then the absence of Love must exist and that is Hate"?

 

[GarrotTheThief]

Would you also claim, "If Love exists, then the absence of Love must exist and that is Hate"?

not quite sure. why do you ask?

I've heard it said that love/hate are inseparable. Perhaps love pulses like a binary star and when it's faded hate manifests...Or perhaps it's much more gray than that. I don't know.

But I'm curious why you ask? Your response could be an interesting learning experience.

edit: this is post 666..

 

[Bush]

It's a nebulous but useful construct. Its 'purpose' is to be a contrast.

 

[Jaguar]

not quite sure. why do you ask?

I've heard it said that love/hate are inseparable. Perhaps love pulses like a binary star and when it's faded hate manifests...Or perhaps it's much more gray than that. I don't know.

But I'm curious why you ask? Your response could be an interesting learning experience.

I don't think the absence of love is hate, nor do I think the absence of good is evil. That's why I asked. I was wondering if your thinking really is that black and white. That's all.

 

[miss fortune]

can't say that I believe in good or evil because life seems too much like a continuity of gray areas, some areas deeper gray and others lighter, but nothing purely black or white. to decide that something is good or bad is a human construct, after all.

funny if you consider a dog. dogs have been our friends and companions for millennia and strive to please us and make us happy. if you yawn at your dog, your dog will yawn back and our expressions are mirrored on their furry faces... the lives and minds of dogs are intertwined with the lives of humans. we have an indoor dog, since we live in the city and many people do have indoor dogs, I was raised, however, with outdoor dogs who worked on the farm the same as any other member of the family. it's funny that an indoor dog knows that they are "bad dogs" when they do something perfectly natural to a dog... something that an outdoor dog wouldn't think twice about, but since they are an indoor dog conditioned by their masters they feel bad... they feel shame.

I think that in a way humanity is kind of like dogs... we've been living in this society with these rules for long enough that they've become a part of us... things that we otherwise might not have felt were bad are suddenly causes for shame or sorrow. if we don't feel those emotions there must be something wrong with us... we are the ones who are in the wrong.

I've made decisions and done things that are apparently wrong at quite a few different points in my life and will most likely continue to do so... I didn't see them as wrong and I still don't. That's something that humans do... we fuck up. occasionally, when forced, I'll at least try and look sorry for things, but that's because otherwise you aren't a part of society... in medieval times you'd probably be outlawed for not being a part of the social order. others apologize or look suitably sorry and I wonder sometimes whether they actually feel sorry or are just going through the motions because they're expected to do so.

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I don't think the absence of love is hate, nor do I think the absence of good is evil. That's why I asked. I was wondering if your thinking really is that black and white. That's all.

absence of love is indifference

 

[Mole]

can't say that I believe in good or evil because life seems too much like a continuity of gray areas, some areas deeper gray and others lighter, but nothing purely black or white. to decide that something is good or bad is a human construct, after all.

funny if you consider a dog. dogs have been our friends and companions for millennia and strive to please us and make us happy. if you yawn at your dog, your dog will yawn back and our expressions are mirrored on their furry faces... the lives and minds of dogs are intertwined with the lives of humans. we have an indoor dog, since we live in the city and many people do have indoor dogs, I was raised, however, with outdoor dogs who worked on the farm the same as any other member of the family. it's funny that an indoor dog knows that they are "bad dogs" when they do something perfectly natural to a dog... something that an outdoor dog wouldn't think twice about, but since they are an indoor dog conditioned by their masters they feel bad... they feel shame.

I think that in a way humanity is kind of like dogs... we've been living in this society with these rules for long enough that they've become a part of us... things that we otherwise might not have felt were bad are suddenly causes for shame or sorrow. if we don't feel those emotions there must be something wrong with us... we are the ones who are in the wrong.

I've made decisions and done things that are apparently wrong at quite a few different points in my life and will most likely continue to do so... I didn't see them as wrong and I still don't. That's something that humans do... we fuck up. occasionally, when forced, I'll at least try and look sorry for things, but that's because otherwise you aren't a part of society... in medieval times you'd probably be outlawed for not being a part of the social order. others apologize or look suitably sorry and I wonder sometimes whether they actually feel sorry or are just going through the motions because they're expected to do so.

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absence of love is indifference

We certainly share most of our DNA with dogs as we do with all living things in Earth for the last four and a half billion years. hard to believe, isn't it?

 

[miss fortune]

We certainly share most of our DNA with dogs as we do with all living things in Earth for the last four and a half billion years. hard to believe, isn't it?

from the narrow perspective yes, from the much wider perspective it makes perfect sense that we'd share so much dna... so many of the same needs

 

[GarrotTheThief]

I don't think the absence of love is hate, nor do I think the absence of good is evil. That's why I asked. I was wondering if your thinking really is that black and white. That's all.

For most opposites I do not believe that one is the absence of the other necessarily as it is with hot and cold but for some I do.


I don't actually believe in absolutes existing though as forms but rather as an essence or magnetic pull upon which we could be more or less the other - if that makes sense...but in practice love is not something easily said.

IT's something that someone can do but knows little of how they do it really...I guess it's authenticity, sincerity, attention, gentleness, a million things really..

 

[Lark]

absence of love is indifference

Yeah I think there was a confusion between its opposite and its absence.