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  1. #31
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    Why can nobody ever define evil? Maybe the meaning is different for every type?

    >> Does the general population think that "those on another function spectrum than they are" are evil?
    Like the Fi hating the Ti for being Ti, or the Ti hating the Fi for being Fi?

  2. #32
    Junior Member Kevin A.S.'s Avatar
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    Being evil is not a purpose, it's the way how people live. I mean, kind or evil is human's personality and not desire. CMIIW.
    "A truly powerful man will always stand alone", Oga Tatsumi

  3. #33
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Researcher View Post
    Why can nobody ever define evil? Maybe the meaning is different for every type?

    >> Does the general population think that "those on another function spectrum than they are" are evil?
    Like the Fi hating the Ti for being Ti, or the Ti hating the Fi for being Fi?
    I don't think the general population of TypeC is that tribal. At least I hope not.

    I don't think the general population of the world is aware of typology. Probably the three biggest determinants of morality are religion, culture, and parenting, which is how people end up with such diverse ideas about good and evil.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin A.S. View Post
    Being evil is not a purpose, it's the way how people live. I mean, kind or evil is human's personality and not desire. CMIIW.
    I've never heard it put quite like that, but I more or less agree. Good and evil are some combination of action and intent, and as I mentioned earlier virtually nobody thinks of themselves as evil.

    Everyone is the hero of their own story.

  5. #35
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    Help me understand. Where did you hear evil is necessary for growth and development?
    Well, if conquering, pillaging, and displacing others is regarded as evil, then it advanced the spread of civilization itself; settled agriculture didn't necessarily start out as a better life, but it certainly won the competition. And wars (or preparing for such) have been responsible for much innovation. Even more brutally, wars (and the diseases resulting from the same) have historically kept the human population at a level in which contemporary agriculture can sustain it, ensuring the long-term survival of the species as well as acting to maintain technological development after major die-offs (because the more technologically advanced societies took the resources while the losers starved).

    Its not pretty, but these and other things show that 'evil' is situationally necessary for growth and development; the trick is to keep limiting the frequency and extent to which it is necessary, one reason why liberal democracy and capitalism are so important.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Well, if conquering, pillaging, and displacing others is regarded as evil, then it advanced the spread of civilization itself; settled agriculture didn't necessarily start out as a better life, but it certainly won the competition. And wars (or preparing for such) have been responsible for much innovation. Even more brutally, wars (and the diseases resulting from the same) have historically kept the human population at a level in which contemporary agriculture can sustain it, ensuring the long-term survival of the species as well as acting to maintain technological development after major die-offs (because the more technologically advanced societies took the resources while the losers starved).

    Its not pretty, but these and other things show that 'evil' is situationally necessary for growth and development; the trick is to keep limiting the frequency and extent to which it is necessary, one reason why liberal democracy and capitalism are so important.
    I dont believe any of those things were necessary evils or even necessary suffering but they are great examples of avoidable evil or avoidable suffering and in much of the world they have been eradicated or are the subject of efforts to eradicate them or contain, reduce and manage them.

    I think those things are rationalisations or excuses for the evils, after the fact, like rationalisations in an individual for behaviours, in part arising from the fact that life can only be understood backwards but paradoxically has to be lived forwards.

    However, I would say that conflict, competition, diversity and alternatives from which to choose are all objective goods, sometimes they are confused with or as bad things but that's a product, to my mind, of ideology and prejudices more than anything else.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Researcher View Post
    Why can nobody ever define evil? Maybe the meaning is different for every type?

    >> Does the general population think that "those on another function spectrum than they are" are evil?
    Like the Fi hating the Ti for being Ti, or the Ti hating the Fi for being Fi?
    I think that evil is shadow or inferior to good.

    Most evil is a distorted, or to use a word generally discarded or disowned these days perverted, drive, so you get people who can not relate to others but who remain driven to do so becoming sadists or something similar in order to satisfy or channel that drive.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I just told you that it is. I pointed out what the definition of semantics is, and that it is a core of logic and philosophy. You can disagree, but to do so is objectively wrong since disagreeing with a fact makes something wrong. If you want to continue to feel that way go right ahead, but it's incorrect and I am not going to participate discussing that matter any further as it's quite clear you're not going to yield.
    Yeah but your point up until this post was that all things being a matter of semantics, being meaningless, all opinion etc. etc. would lead me to conclude that you did not, as I say until this post, believe there was such a matter as objective fact, so it would appear that things are only factual in so far as you believe them to support your point at the present moment, which further leads me to believe that your posts are being made in the spirit of defensiveness.

    So like I say, I dont agree with you that its a matter of semantics, I believe that is mistaken and born of a wish to "win" the argument which is sophistry as opposed to trying to progress any sort of discussion. I am not going to "yield" as you put it because I think you are wrong about this and dont want to encourage you in error.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    I've taken my own stab at defining evil, but yeah, I think for many people it comes down to "I know it when I see it."

    It just so happens that I saw a recording of one of those fundy Islamic beheadings this morning, and despite being a moral relativist in many ways, let me say that that shit is Evil with a capital E.

    Ugh.
    Which sounds like practical as opposed to abstract or academic reasoning.

    In terms of types its probably sensing as opposed to intuition or the SJ vs NT way of looking at things. Not always a good idea because practical reasoning can often be the assertion of social norms, "received wisdom", in pretty unreflective ways without a mind to distinguish between the perennial and vogues or fashions in pop culture.

    There is a crisis or confusion of morality which leads to a lot of assertions of relativism which arises from trying to deal with complexity, on which there is no consensus, when it comes to things such as torture and murder there is a consensus, its simpler, and that consensus is so great that its conceivable that there is a natural law codifying in the human mind and conscious reflecting it. Its one of the few cases when I think reductivism can be useful.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The purpose of evil is power, as power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    So a totally powerful God is evil.

    And totalitarianism is absolute power and is evil.

    So a totally powerful God with a totalitarian ideology is doubly evil.

    Threatening to destroy the world with nuclear weapons is evil.

    At a personal level identifying with a false self and denying the true self is evil. Identifying with a false self is a way of having power over ourselves, and it corrupts us and our friends, and is evil.
    Its a mistake to conflate temporal power with God and divinity.

    Although power does tend to corrupt and absolute power would corrupt absolutely. Its a consequence of people being human, all too human.

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