Privatize education

[murkrow]

And where do the corporations find the geniuses and intelligent people before they can afford to go to a good school to prove their brilliance? You're being highly idealistic. The reality is that when education becomes purely commodified and morons like Bush are able to pay their way through school the value of an education is less meaningful. This is why many northern European countries have a far more effective education system than the US. I should also mention the Soviet Union which launched Sputnik and Gagarin into space before the US which made them think "hmm maybe we better put more money into education" and they did.

Yet Harvard economists are still calling things like pollution, and the billions it amounts to in health costs, 'externalities'. Well, they mine as well be living on mars because the price of a good doesn't reflect the real costs. But this is the poor quality education you're going to get when science and academia is put in the hands of people with MBAs. You're going to get things like "alternative medicine" and endarkenment. In private institutions we see more biased testing. Didn't you hear "red wine is good for your heart". Yes and the people that were surveyed were all comfortably living bourgeoisie that are living longer anyways. Survey a bunch of homeless people or persons with incomes < than 5000 per year and we'll see entirely different results. Incidentally, these bias surveys serve the interest of industry rather than academia. This is the problem when the people with MBAs start running science and academia..you get a program that reflects their interest which usually isn't the best quality education. That said, I think privatization is a terrible and destructive idea that amounts to a poor quality education given the alternatives.

Thank you for making me read an entirely off topic paragraph about surveys.

It is in the interest of the business world to have intellectuals working for them. Children who show high intellectual capability would be scouted for, this is a simple fact. It is not idealist, it is realistic to assume that corporations will do what is in their best interest.

Almost all children will be sent to corporate schools if there are no other options available to them, it would be free and guarantee a job. The chances of a gifted child slipping through the hands of a corporation attempting to recruit the best a brightest from the people it has already signed on are incredibly low, much lower than the chances of a gifted child going nowhere in the current system.

 

[Jack Flak]

It is in the interest of the business world to have intellectuals working for them. Children who show high intellectual capability would be scouted for, this is a simple fact. It is not idealist, it is realistic to assume that corporations will do what is in their best interest..

What makes it precisely idealistic is that it isn't happening.

 

[ajblaise]

I do not think that the current price of private education should not be taken as indicative of what the prices would be in a competitive market, and neither would the affordability be the same if people were paying less in taxes for public education. The current system has increased the cost of education three-fold over the last forty years or so, with no corresponding increase in performance. As a commentator on a recent CATO podcast noted, that would be like being forced today to purchase an ordinary car from the 70s for about $40,000.

In all most every industry over the last 30 years there has been an appreciable increase in quality, decrease in price, or both. The education industry has remained static with regard to quality, but has needed to increase the relative costs three times over to achieve that--an incredible drop in efficiency. You would think that the education of children, arguably one of the most important services in society, would not be trusted to an organisation which has for so many years demonstrated its penchant for waste, incompetence and political agendas.

How much does the average household pay in taxes for education? $1000? A private school would cost at least 8x more than this. Most people are having a hard time paying the bills they already have.

Would you be against having public funds attached to the kid and letting the parents choose were to send them? It works for Europe, the place with the best test scores in the world and the most educated populouses.

 

[booyalab]

The reality is that when education becomes purely commodified and morons like Bush are able to pay their way through school the value of an education is less meaningful.

What are you proposing, exactly? That I should have to pay for morons to go through school? I'm all for stupid people getting educated, but only if they choose to do it and it comes from their pocketbook or some other willing contributor. The reason public school sucks is because it's full of idiots who are forced to be there for "free". If that's not a formula for failure I don't know what is.

 

[ajblaise]

Thank you for making me read an entirely off topic paragraph about surveys.

It is in the interest of the business world to have intellectuals working for them. Children who show high intellectual capability would be scouted for, this is a simple fact. It is not idealist, it is realistic to assume that corporations will do what is in their best interest.

Almost all children will be sent to corporate schools if there are no other options available to them, it would be free and guarantee a job. The chances of a gifted child slipping through the hands of a corporation attempting to recruit the best a brightest from the people it has already signed on are incredibly low, much lower than the chances of a gifted child going nowhere in the current system.

I'm not sure corporations would want what is normally considered to be intellectuals...people who question everything and are unbound in their intellectual pursuits. They would want intellectuals whose intellect is bound to figuring out the best way to save a couple pennies.

And I think we can agree that a corporate education would produce horribly un-well rounded people who only know how to perform the task that their job requires.

Basically their whole life would be dictated by what the specific corporation wants.

 

[murkrow]

How much does the average household pay in taxes for education? $1000? A private school would cost at least 8x more than this. Most people are having a hard time paying the bills they already have.

Would you be against having public funds attached to the kid and letting the parents choose were to send them? It works for Europe, the place with the best test scores in the world and the most educated populouses.

The average private school has facilities far and above the average public school.


In Canada 75.7 billion dollars a year goes into education, 24 percent of the population is under 20, so we pay 10,000 dollars every year for each citizen under 20 years of age.

 

[Jack Flak]

The reason public school sucks is because it's full of idiots who are forced to be there for "free". If that's not a formula for failure I don't know what is.

But pragmatically speaking, would you rather live in a society where these people remained completely uneducated?

 

[Jasz]

So are public school unions.

so why change then?

 

[ajblaise]

The average private school has facilities far and above the average public school.


In Canada 75.7 billion dollars a year goes into education, 24 percent of the population is under 20, so we pay 10,000 dollars every year for each citizen under 20 years of age.

Is that what the average person pays? Or do the wealthy canadians take the brunt of the cost with progressive taxes?

How is the education in Canada by the way? I know it's better than in America at least at the k-12 levels.

 

[murkrow]

so why change then?

Because it is better to have a choice in which agenda your child is subjected to.

 

[murkrow]

Is that what the average person pays? Or do the wealthy canadians take the brunt of the cost with progressive taxes?

How is the education in Canada by the way? I know it's better than in America at least at the k-12 levels.

Yeah, the wealthy do carry much of the burden.

I was not wowed by my education.

 

[Oberon]

But pragmatically speaking, would you rather live in a society where these people remained completely uneducated?

You mean like now?

 

[Jack Flak]

You mean like now?

I'll post so you know I read this, but there isn't a response which wouldn't require me to essay upon deaf ears, assume your idiocy, or pretend I'm an idiot myself.

 

[pure_mercury]

Poor and lower-middle class families can't afford $13,000 per kid to go to school. It's as simple as that, of course attendance rates would drop.

Where does the $13,000 a year figure come from? There is NO WAY education designed and implemented for the underclass would be anywhere near that expensive circa 2008. In fact, the most recent numbers I've seen average closer to $8,600 a year spent per student per year in American public grade schools.

 

[pure_mercury]

so why change then?

The quality of the education could conceivably improve considerably.

 

[Oberon]

I'll post so you know I read this, but there isn't a response which wouldn't require me to essay upon deaf ears, assume your idiocy, or pretend I'm an idiot myself.

Good point... my flippant response left no room for a reasonable reply. I apologize.

But I will tell you the truth: In the city where I live, a high school diploma amounts to a certificate of participation. It is quite common for our graduates to be essentially illiterate, and many don't even bother to finish.

There are also those who finish high school here with reasonably good preparation for college. This depends entirely on the volition of the student.

 

[Enyo]

How much does the average household pay in taxes for education? $1000? A private school would cost at least 8x more than this. Most people are having a hard time paying the bills they already have.

Would you be against having public funds attached to the kid and letting the parents choose were to send them? It works for Europe, the place with the best test scores in the world and the most educated populouses.

They already do something like this in Florida if the child is attending a "failing school". It's called the school voucher program, and it's *really* controversial.

 

[ajblaise]

Where does the $13,000 a year figure come from? There is NO WAY education designed and implemented for the underclass would be anywhere near that expensive circa 2008. In fact, the most recent numbers I've seen average closer to $8,600 a year spent per student per year in American public grade schools.

I remember being told that figure when I was in elementary school by a teacher. Maybe the figure is higher in some states, I live in NY. $8,600 is still a lot of money, especially for a lower-class family with several children..

 

[Enyo]

Is that what the average person pays? Or do the wealthy canadians take the brunt of the cost with progressive taxes?

How is the education in Canada by the way? I know it's better than in America at least at the k-12 levels.

I can't speak to the taxation stuff, but I know that we do pay a ridiculous amount of taxes in comparison to what I paid when I lived in the States.

Don't be too sure that Canadian education is so much better than American education. I attended school in the States. My son attended K-3 in British Columbia.

It sucks. They have minimal (if any) enrichment programs for gifted children. I've found that very few teachers are able to deal with an advanced student and keep that child stimulated. The schools here are homogenized, so my gifted child was in a classroom with the unwashed masses, where the curriculum was taught to the lowest common denominator.

I ended up sending my son home to Florida for school, because it sucks so much here. At least there, he's in classrooms that are sorted by intellectual ability. He also has more enrichment and extracurricular activities available to him.

From what I've investigated in the universities here, they aren't all that incredible. Some are better than others, of course, but the local university in my area is great... if you want to major in Forestry or Fisheries. Otherwise, it sucks.

 

[pure_mercury]

I remember being told that figure when I was in elementary school by a teacher. Maybe the figure is higher in some states, I live in NY. $8,600 is still a lot of money, especially for a lower-class family with several children..

I don't think it would take $8,600 per student. That's the point. There would obviously be free schooling for the truly indigent, as well. The free charity schools couldn't be any worse than public schools in the areas of the country in which parents can't afford any tuition whatsoever.