User Tag List

View Poll Results: Which support system for your post privatised school?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Charity

    3 8.82%
  • Corporate

    10 29.41%
  • Religious

    7 20.59%
  • I don't know/I love government control of education

    14 41.18%
First 7891011 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 157

  1. #81
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    How much does the average household pay in taxes for education? $1000? A private school would cost at least 8x more than this. Most people are having a hard time paying the bills they already have.
    I repeat: 'I do not think that the current price of private education should not be taken as indicative of what the prices would be in a competitive market, and neither would the affordability be the same if people were paying less in taxes for public education.' The current situation is such that there is hardly any incentive for private educaters to supply education to the less wealthy, since they're competing with a public institution that forces their "customers" to pay whether they want to or not.

    Would you be against having public funds attached to the kid and letting the parents choose were to send them? It works for Europe, the place with the best test scores in the world and the most educated populouses.
    I think that a school voucher scheme would be a vast improvement over the current situation, but very little progress will be made on that front because of the unions, which are in turn only strong because the education system is a public one. Any union as cancerous as the teachers union is in the US would have long since killed any private company and relieved us of itself, but when attached to a public funded organisation its burden on society is almost unlimited.

    In regard to the Europeans, it's not so great from my experience. There is a lot of talk in the US of Europe as though it is the promised land (particularly Sweden). It's not. Some things are better, some things are worse, other things are very similar, like the quality of public education.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  2. #82
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I repeat: 'I do not think that the current price of private education should not be taken as indicative of what the prices would be in a competitive market, and neither would the affordability be the same if people were paying less in taxes for public education.' The current situation is such that there is hardly any incentive for private educaters to supply education to the less wealthy, since they're competing with a public institution that forces their "customers" to pay whether they want to or not.

    I think that a school voucher scheme would be a vast improvement over the current situation, but very little progress will be made on that front because of the unions, which are in turn only strong because the education system is a public one. Any union as cancerous as the teachers union is in the US would have long since killed any private company and relieved us of itself, but when attached to a public funded organisation its burden on society is almost unlimited.

    In regard to the Europeans, it's not so great from my experience. There is a lot of talk in the US of Europe as though it is the promised land (particularly Sweden). It's not. Some things are better, some things are worse, other things are very similar, like the quality of public education.
    Competitive market or not, we are talking about figures millions of households, especially ones with several children, can't afford. The US can't afford to have a larger percentage of uneducated idiots than it already has.

    A persons comfortable existence in the states relies on the education and performance of thousands of other people, which is why I have no problem with taxes for education.

    You say Europe is not much different, but the test score and achievement gaps I've seen referenced are. Are Europeans just naturally smarter? Would you blame the minorities in the US for our low average test scores?

  3. #83
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I think that a school voucher scheme would be a vast improvement over the current situation, but very little progress will be made on that front because of the unions, which are in turn only strong because the education system is a public one. Any union as cancerous as the teachers union is in the US would have long since killed any private company and relieved us of itself, but when attached to a public funded organisation its burden on society is almost unlimited.
    Let me start this post by saying that I am anti-union. I've had one union job, and I will never, ever have another.

    That said, the teacher's unions are stronger in some states than others. Washington state, for example. In Florida, the union isn't really all that powerful. Florida is a right-to-work state. The union doesn't have much (if any) power. In fact, the union had to fight to get the teachers of Pasco County, Florida a $1000/year raise. Last time I'd spoken to my teacher friend from back home, it was still questionable as to whether or not it would happen. Average salary for teachers in Florida is about $35k/year. Some places pay less.

    But I'd like to think that most people don't go into education for the money.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  4. #84
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Don't be too sure that Canadian education is so much better than American education.
    Aren't they still teaching "intelligent design" in certain American schools? lol

  5. #85
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Let me start this post by saying that I am anti-union. I've had one union job, and I will never, ever have another.

    That said, the teacher's unions are stronger in some states than others. Washington state, for example. In Florida, the union isn't really all that powerful. Florida is a right-to-work state. The union doesn't have much (if any) power. In fact, the union had to fight to get the teachers of Pasco County, Florida a $1000/year raise. Last time I'd spoken to my teacher friend from back home, it was still questionable as to whether or not it would happen. Average salary for teachers in Florida is about $35k/year. Some places pay less.

    But I'd like to think that most people don't go into education for the money.
    I'm not sure which states have powerful education unions and which ones don't so I'll go by the red/blue state divide which is probably close. Blue states score much higher and achieve more than red states, so maybe unions and education go well together.

    I remember talking to a teacher who said his union due fees are like $300 per year, not much considering the benefits it provides...like if you are injured at your workplace and have $250,000 in hospital costs, the union picks up the tab.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    Aren't they still teaching "intelligent design" in certain American schools? lol
    Ugh. Yeah, in backwards places like the midwest. :P
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #87
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'm not sure which states have powerful education unions and which ones don't so I'll go by the red/blue state divide which is probably close. Blue states score much higher and achieve more than red states, so maybe unions and education go well together.
    Washington, D.C. spends the most per pupil of any state/district in the country, and its public schools are range from poor to absolute nightmares.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #88
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Washington, D.C. spends the most per pupil of any state/district in the country, and its public schools are range from poor to absolute nightmares.
    Taxachusetts no doubt spends a lot on education and they have good test scores as well as a very educationally achieved populous. And look at the states with the worst test scores...red states primarily. They don't spend as much on education as most of better achieving blue states.

    With D.C., I hate to get racial, but don't they have a huge minority population outside the capital? Minority populations tend to under-perform where ever they are.

  9. #89
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Taxachusetts no doubt spends a lot on education and they have good test scores as well as a very educationally achieved populous.

    With D.C., I hate to get racial, but don't they have a huge minority population outside the capital? Minority populations tend to under-perform where ever they are.
    Perhaps. There are clear IQ disparities between races (even accounting for class/education differences). I was just trying to point out that spending on students and unions and high wages don't necessarily bring about better performance. And it's not really a red state/blue state background. Many public schools in the red Mountain West are superior to their purply-blue lower Midwest neighbors. General north-ness is a better indicator of school quality, Southern California and parts of Texas and Florida notwithstanding. Of course, those states are often wealthier and have better-educated parents, too. To be fair to you, those states also often have accordingly higher spending-per-pupil, but it's not uniform district-by-district.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #90
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Why should anyone expect that? The school attendence rates hardly change when governments abolish private education and establish a monopoly, even when the government makes attendence mandatory. From my recollection of what I have heard and read on the issue, education is not something which is underconsumed, even by the poor. Moreover, privately run schools tend to produce better results with far lower costs, which helps make education more affordable, not less.
    This seems counterintuitive. Do you have some data to support this claim?
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

Similar Threads

  1. Math Education: An Inconvenient Truth
    By nightning in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-13-2009, 11:19 PM
  2. late bloomers @ formal education
    By Grayscale in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-01-2008, 11:17 AM
  3. reforming math education
    By Gabe in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 08-15-2008, 12:35 AM
  4. MBTI & Home-Education
    By Rowan in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 08:17 PM
  5. Formal Education
    By substitute in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-05-2008, 04:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO