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View Poll Results: Which support system for your post privatised school?

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  • Charity

    3 8.82%
  • Corporate

    10 29.41%
  • Religious

    7 20.59%
  • I don't know/I love government control of education

    14 41.18%
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Results 51 to 60 of 157

  1. #51
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Were there no publicly funded schools the business world would have no choice but to create their own.

    I have no problem moving the burden from the workers to the corporations.
    What if a lot of these schools amount to a simple 1-week training program? They wouldn't be keeping these kids educated for 13 years learning things like history like they are now, they'd be out of there as soon as they could perform whatever job was chosen for them.

    I envision some kind of industrial system that pumps out worker bees as a bleak affair.

  2. #52
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I envision some kind of industrial system that pumps out worker bees as a bleak affair.
    Actually, this is the function that dictates the form of the modern American public school, as envisioned by Horace Mann and others of his era.

    And it is, indeed, a bleak affair.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Poor and lower-middle class families can't afford $13,000 per kid to go to school. It's as simple as that, of course attendance rates would drop.
    What, you think that's what it costs to teach a kid?

  4. #54
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    What, you think that's what it costs to teach a kid?
    That's what it costs per year in what many think is an severely under funded system as it is.

  5. #55
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    That's what it costs per year in what many think is an severely under funded system as it is.
    Public school systems are notoriously top-heavy with management structure, and notoriously inefficient. Honest, I kid you not, a good private school can teach any given kid better for less money.

    Heck, my wife and I have been teaching our kids since kindergarten. They're 14, 12, and 8 (the youngest is 3, we haven't started school with her yet). We can DIY for about $1,000 worth of curricula and texts per year for all three of them... and I will stack my kids' standardized test scores up against those of any public school system in the country.

    Now, admittedly that doesn't take into account the value of our time... but my point is that good education can be done for well under $13K per student per year.

  6. #56
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Public school systems are notoriously top-heavy with management structure, and notoriously inefficient. Honest, I kid you not, a good private school can teach any given kid better for less money.

    Heck, my wife and I have been teaching our kids since kindergarten. They're 14, 12, and 8 (the youngest is 3, we haven't started school with her yet). We can DIY for about $1,000 worth of curricula and texts per year for all three of them... and I will stack my kids' standardized test scores up against those of any public school system in the country.

    Now, admittedly that doesn't take into account the value of our time... but my point is that good education can be done for well under $13K per student per year.
    Well of course doing it yourself will be cheaper, but sending a kid to a school with teachers, principals, nurses, lunch ladys....this costs a lot of money.

    No matter what, unless we are talking about home schooling, we are talking about thousands of dollars a year.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Public school systems are notoriously top-heavy with management structure, and notoriously inefficient. Honest, I kid you not, a good private school can teach any given kid better for less money.

    Heck, my wife and I have been teaching our kids since kindergarten. They're 14, 12, and 8 (the youngest is 3, we haven't started school with her yet). We can DIY for about $1,000 worth of curricula and texts per year for all three of them... and I will stack my kids' standardized test scores up against those of any public school system in the country.

    Now, admittedly that doesn't take into account the value of our time... but my point is that good education can be done for well under $13K per student per year.
    It can be if you don't pay your staff to teach. You have to take into account the value of the time spent to teach your children.

    Let's assume that the average teacher makes $30k/year. This just brought the price of educating your children up to $31k/year. Divide that by 3, and you're still just under the mark of the cost of educating the average child.

    Are you putting your kids in any art or enrichment courses taught outside of your home? Or taking them on educational field trips that would normally be paid for by the school system? What's the going rate for private lessons in music and music theory, since your child isn't attending a school that offers this as part of the curriculum?

    Don't kid yourself. Instead of shelling out the cash to pay for the education, you're paying for it by missing the opportunity to earn that money.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  8. #58
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Poor and lower-middle class families can't afford $13,000 per kid to go to school. It's as simple as that, of course attendance rates would drop.
    I do not think that the current price of private education should not be taken as indicative of what the prices would be in a competitive market, and neither would the affordability be the same if people were paying less in taxes for public education. The current system has increased the cost of education three-fold over the last forty years or so, with no corresponding increase in performance. As a commentator on a recent CATO podcast noted, that would be like being forced today to purchase an ordinary car from the 70s for about $40,000.

    In all most every industry over the last 30 years there has been an appreciable increase in quality, decrease in price, or both. The education industry has remained static with regard to quality, but has needed to increase the relative costs three times over to achieve that--an incredible drop in efficiency. You would think that the education of children, arguably one of the most important services in society, would not be trusted to an organisation which has for so many years demonstrated its penchant for waste, incompetence and political agendas.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Poor geniuses are desired by corporations and all academic institutions.

    Their schooling will be subsidized.
    And where do the corporations find the geniuses and intelligent people before they can afford to go to a good school to prove their brilliance? You're being highly idealistic. The reality is that when education becomes purely commodified and morons like Bush are able to pay their way through school the value of an education is less meaningful. This is why many northern European countries have a far more effective education system than the US. I should also mention the Soviet Union which launched Sputnik and Gagarin into space before the US which made them think "hmm maybe we better put more money into education" and they did.

    Yet Harvard economists are still calling things like pollution, and the billions it amounts to in health costs, 'externalities'. Well, they mine as well be living on mars because the price of a good doesn't reflect the real costs. But this is the poor quality education you're going to get when science and academia is put in the hands of people with MBAs. You're going to get things like "alternative medicine" and endarkenment. In private institutions we see more biased testing. Didn't you hear "red wine is good for your heart". Yes and the people that were surveyed were all comfortably living bourgeoisie that are living longer anyways. Survey a bunch of homeless people or persons with incomes < than 5000 per year and we'll see entirely different results. Incidentally, these bias surveys serve the interest of industry rather than academia. This is the problem when the people with MBAs start running science and academia..you get a program that reflects their interest which usually isn't the best quality education. That said, I think privatization is a terrible and destructive idea that amounts to a poor quality education given the alternatives.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    And where do the corporations find the geniuses and intelligent people before they can afford to go to a good school to prove their brilliance? You're being highly idealistic. The reality is that when education becomes purely commodified and morons like Bush are able to pay their way through school the value of an education is less meaningful.
    100%. Well, 99%. Bush isn't a moron, but he's no Cheney.

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