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  1. #1
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    Default If objective value does not exist, then why become an atheist?

    Have fun

  2. #2
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Would you unpack 'objective value' a bit?

    I'm an atheist because it makes sense.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Becuase you're still you and you can still get enjoyment.

  4. #4
    Member Eska's Avatar
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    I fail to see the correlation between "values are subjective" and "why become an atheist?".

    Why does one lead to you to question the other?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Most atheism I see in the world, online or offline, and I've seen in my 36 years of life, is something more like narcissism or apathy, there's no obligation, no effort required, its not challenging, its not unsettling or demanding, you dont need to seek forgiveness, there's no authority outside yourself, no authority greater than yourself, no authority other than yourself.

    The OP seems clever, a lot of people do adopt atheism by accident or default, they dont opt for atheism so much as reject what atheism is not or what atheism is contra, thinking its free of the value judgements characteristic of religion. Although that is itself a value judgement.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Most atheism I see in the world, online or offline, and I've seen in my 36 years of life, is something more like narcissism or apathy...
    Well that's a rather negative way of looking at atheism. I'm awfully tempted to think of a few adjectives that paint religious folks in the worst possible light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...there's no obligation, no effort required...
    As an introvert, yes, the very idea of having to go to temple/church/mosque every week makes me shudder with boredom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...its not challenging...
    I go to a Catholic college and I've had religious friends my entire life, and I assure you it can be very challenging to live with grown adults who take history lessons from hundreds+ year-old mythology books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...its not unsettling or demanding...
    I was raised with agnosticism/atheism, so this is true enough of me. But people who come to atheism from a religious background often do find it highly unsettling, at least at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...you dont need to seek forgiveness, there's no authority outside yourself, no authority greater than yourself, no authority other than yourself.
    There's family and state, but I'm guessing you mean 'there's no invisible deity looking over my shoulder and judging everything I do.' Which is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The OP seems clever, a lot of people do adopt atheism by accident or default, they dont opt for atheism so much as reject what atheism is not or what atheism is contra...
    Well, atheism is a rejection of religious assumptions, so I'm not sure how else one could arrive at it. Whether one is more-or-less raised with it as I was, or comes to atheism from some religion, he or she has to at some point think "What if Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Kabbalah, the Norse gods, the flying spaghetti monster, or whatever else is real?" And then conclude that "...Nah, that's silly!"

    So your statement is true enough, though it's much like saying "A lot of people don't opt for religion so much as reject rational thought in favor of the religion they were born into, or whatever belief system feels comfortable to them." Not a very productive way to talk about people, wouldn't you agree? Unless of course you're looking for an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...thinking its free of the value judgements characteristic of religion. Although that is itself a value judgement.
    Yes, most of us atheists think that we're better able to judge right and wrong than any ancient story book. Much like most religious people think they're capable of judging right and wrong in cases not covered by their favored holy book. (And sometimes even in those cases!)
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  7. #7
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    people like to name things and because religion exists the need to call something not religion, and really who cares? i mean people believe what makes sense to them, and at this point in history and science its all you can realistically expect. and even if god got empirically proven or disproven it would take a long ass time to get people to change their minds to whichever the truth is. humans don't change minds easily on stuff like this. a person spirtuality is shaped by their life all aspects of it including childhood (i'm including just spirtual people, religious people, atheist, and agnostics in this).
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  8. #8
    Member Eska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Most atheism I see in the world, online or offline, and I've seen in my 36 years of life, is something more like narcissism or apathy, there's no obligation, no effort required, its not challenging, its not unsettling or demanding, you dont need to seek forgiveness, there's no authority outside yourself, no authority greater than yourself, no authority other than yourself.

    The OP seems clever, a lot of people do adopt atheism by accident or default, they dont opt for atheism so much as reject what atheism is not or what atheism is contra, thinking its free of the value judgements characteristic of religion. Although that is itself a value judgement.
    [...] there's no obligation, no effort required, its not challenging, its not unsettling or demanding, you dont need to seek forgiveness, there's no authority outside yourself, no authority greater than yourself, no authority other than yourself.
    Are you implying that there should be? If so, why?

  9. #9
    is indra's Avatar
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    Atheism provides the most supreme form of objective valuation.

  10. #10
    Member Eska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    Atheism provides the most supreme form of objective valuation.
    How does atheism provide objective valuation?

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