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  1. #21
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    It's like he encouraged you to be reactionary......any fool knows that's the opposite of wisdom.
    I disagree; many people are fools specifically because they are reactionary...usually in very selective ways that happen to benefit themselves at the cost of others. Of course, being reactionary is like being evil; nobody thinks of themselves that way, so reactionaries usually use terms like 'traditional values' to describe the rationalizations they've built up around their fear of change.

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  2. #22
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    The truth is, as Darwin said, that which sustains life, peace, etc, not that which is factual.
    Darwin said this? Out of all the people in the world, Darwin?

    Maybe it was a metaphor, a coded message perhaps. However, he never sounded like a coded message guy.
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  3. #23
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Darwin said this? Out of all the people in the world, Darwin?

    Maybe it was a metaphor, a coded message perhaps. However, he never sounded like a coded message guy.
    He said the only truth is that which propagates life, or something to that effect. It's been a while since I've watched the lecture from University.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
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    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  4. #24
    Senior Member cm81's Avatar
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    "The true genius shudders at incompleteness, preferring silence to everything that it should be." Edgar Allen Poe

    "There's a magic inside,
    Just waiting to burst out.
    There world is a goldmine-
    That will melt tomorrow."M83
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  5. #25
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Socrates was a fool who began Western Philosophy and who led Erasmus Desiderius to write, In Praise of Folly, in 1509, from Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Click on http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201...-h/30201-h.htm

  6. #26
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I've been reading some old myth's like the Odyssey, Carl Jung, and listening to some lectures on social hierarchy and structure.

    Socrates seems to have been a fool. He tries to disentangle the idea of gods without realizing that in general people don't have time to think too much about philosophy because they have to work so the myth's serve to keep order.

    He pursued what he thought was good, truth, when in reality the truth was the society needed the myth to remain stable and so lives could be nurtured. The truth is, as Darwin said, that which sustains life, peace, etc, not that which is factual. We can talk about facts all day but this isn't wisdom.

    The myths had a moral code which served to stabilize society, as they do today, for example we believe in many myths today such as that we have unalienable rights.

    That's why Socrates was killed. He was a blight, and selfish fool, and devoted his brilliant mind to something profoundly absurd, attempting to dismantle the safety net of society.

    There is not a single society which has not relied on tradition for stability. We can't buck tradition and be innovators without hurting more people than not. The ancient mind knew that deification of philosophy was what myth was and not literal belief. Socrates had no imagination.

    If we look at the relationship of Uranus to Saturn symbolically we can see a floor plan for success when it comes to innovation. Learn the rules before you innovate or else you'll electrocute yourself. Safety first if you really want to be of use to society other wise it's just impulsive selfishness.

    Sorry Socrates...today I shed my skin and am free of your corrosive attitude and I bath in my humanity and mystically participate.
    So in short, you hate Socrates because he had a conscience.

  7. #27
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Studmuffin23 View Post
    So in short, you hate Socrates because he had a conscience.
    no. I don't hate Socrates. That would imply i also love him and in truth I don't know if he was real or just a mythological figure. Either way, it doesn't really matter. No matter how wise a man or woman is he/she will be a fool and no matter how foolish he/she will be wise. It's cause things are process based.

    Socrates was for the mind, and brain, and a good read...and he is actually a very soulful figure now that I've gone back and re-read some of his quotations. I would like to make this a palinode to the man who was really simply translating myth, or that of the soul, into logic, that of the mind.

    Kudos to you.
    @Evee
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.
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  8. #28
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    "Socrates was the chief saint of the Stoics throughout their history; his attitude at the time of his trial, his refusal to escape, his calmness in the face of death, and his contention that the perpetrator of injustice injures himself more than his victim, all fitted in perfectly with Stoic teaching. So did his indifference to heat and cold, his plainness in matters of food and dress, and his complete independence of all bodily comforts. But the Stoics never took over Plato's doctrine of ideas, and most of them rejected his arguments for immortality. Only the later Stoics followed him in regarding the soul as immaterial; the earlier Stoics agreed with Heraclitus in the view that the soul is composed of material fire."

    Bertrand Russell
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  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evee View Post
    "Socrates was the chief saint of the Stoics throughout their history; his attitude at the time of his trial, his refusal to escape, his calmness in the face of death, and his contention that the perpetrator of injustice injures himself more than his victim, all fitted in perfectly with Stoic teaching. So did his indifference to heat and cold, his plainness in matters of food and dress, and his complete independence of all bodily comforts. But the Stoics never took over Plato's doctrine of ideas, and most of them rejected his arguments for immortality. Only the later Stoics followed him in regarding the soul as immaterial; the earlier Stoics agreed with Heraclitus in the view that the soul is composed of material fire."

    Bertrand Russell
    What is fascinating is the similarlty between the Ancient Greek Stoics and American Puritans.

    American Puritans have received a bad press in recent times, but it was American Puritans who made America, just as the Ancient Greek Stoics like Socrates made Western Philosophy.

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    What is fascinating is the similarlty between the Ancient Greek Stoics and American Puritans.
    That was exactly what I was thinking too in response to @Evee post. Except instead of puritans, I'd substitute early Christians perhaps.

    This leads me to believe that there is a transcendent yearning for man to attain a place where the events around him do not affect him. Usually this is only attained by religion or spiritual pursuit. Since Socrates made a religion out of his philosophy, it makes sense.

    I think of the apostle Paul, and many of the Christian martyrs, that withstood torture gracefully, right to their end.

    It's a fascinating state to attain or contemplate.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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