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  1. #11
    is indra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    now we are like two samurai who have put down their swords and chosen to solve the issue with a shamanic dance under a star filled sky.
    The skies tell me, this is no time for anything but passion and bloodshed -


  2. #12
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    The skies tell me, this is no time for anything but passion and bloodshed -

    then I will grab your sword and shove it through my sternum with an iron grip as my palms cut and bleed and burn my dying smile on to your retinas for lives to come.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evee View Post
    lol...that's a shaman huh?
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    lol...that's a shaman huh?
    Could be perceived that way..
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  4. #14
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Socrates was a gigantic pompous prick.

    I could barely stand discussing him, no less reading about him (had to read a few books about and or written by him in college). Logical and right as he might be (nearly always he was) he lacked the human element, and when he did have it he completely disregarded it. He had and unwillingness or inability to meet others in the middle, or speak at a level that others would be receptive to. If you have a message, you need to communicate it in such a way that others will get it. If not, then you are wasting energy and usually will just piss people off. The fact that he didn't do that and did not want to ruined his entire cause. His stubborness was his own downfall and I have not a lick of sympathy for it because of how ingrained it was.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
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    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I've been reading some old myth's like the Odyssey, Carl Jung, and listening to some lectures on social hierarchy and structure.

    Socrates seems to have been a fool. He tries to disentangle the idea of gods without realizing that in general people don't have time to think too much about philosophy because they have to work so the myth's serve to keep order.
    I agree, people need religion to know right from wrong and their places in the world. All of this thinking is malarky!

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    The myths had a moral code which served to stabilize society, as they do today, for example we believe in many myths today such as that we have unalienable rights.
    Exactly! Because believing that there's some immortal dude on a mountain who throws lightning around when he's pissed off is the same as believing that people ought to treat each other fairly.

    Exactly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    That's why Socrates was killed. He was a blight, and selfish fool, and devoted his brilliant mind to something profoundly absurd, attempting to dismantle the safety net of society.
    Well said! Trying to enlighten people and make society better is so selfish! Just like that Buddha guy, Muhammed, and whatshisname...Jesus! Totally selfish people, and good riddance! We're better off blind and reactionary!

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    There is not a single society which has not relied on tradition for stability. We can't buck tradition and be innovators without hurting more people than not.
    You're totally right, again! Too bad we bucked that pedophilia tradition that the ancient Greeks had, I bet that was stupid ol' Socrates fault too! Now that I think of it, history is full of all sorts of hurtful innovations...letting women and non-white people vote, cars replacing horses, vaccines replacing medicinal 'tonics,' ugh think of all the people these innovations have hurt. It makes me sick!

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    Sorry Socrates...today I shed my skin and am free of your corrosive attitude and I bath in my humanity and mystically participate.
    I'll proudly shed my skin with you, and wrap my quivering musculature and raw nerves in the comforting barbed wire of anti-intellectualism before joining the stampede of human sheep.
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  6. #16
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    I agree, people need religion to know right from wrong and their places in the world. All of this thinking is malarky!


    Exactly! Because believing that there's some immortal dude on a mountain who throws lightning around when he's pissed off is the same as believing that people ought to treat each other fairly.

    Exactly the same.


    Well said! Trying to enlighten people and make society better is so selfish! Just like that Buddha guy, Muhammed, and whatshisname...Jesus! Totally selfish people, and good riddance! We're better off blind and reactionary!


    You're totally right, again! Too bad we bucked that pedophilia tradition that the ancient Greeks had, I bet that was stupid ol' Socrates fault too! Now that I think of it, history is full of all sorts of hurtful innovations...letting women and non-white people vote, cars replacing horses, vaccines replacing medicinal 'tonics,' ugh think of all the people these innovations have hurt. It makes me sick!


    I'll proudly shed my skin with you, and wrap my quivering musculature and raw nerves in the comforting barbed wire of anti-intellectualism before joining the stampede of human sheep.
    See! Point proven...your sarcasm is highly effective yet entirely irrational just like believing in Santa.

    Your cuteness has infected me and now I might reconsider my position. Might implies a probability of less than 30 percent though so don't bet on it mr. funny pants!
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.
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  7. #17
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Socrates was a gigantic pompous prick.

    I could barely stand discussing him, no less reading about him (had to read a few books about and or written by him in college). Logical and right as he might be (nearly always he was) he lacked the human element, and when he did have it he completely disregarded it. He had and unwillingness or inability to meet others in the middle, or speak at a level that others would be receptive to. If you have a message, you need to communicate it in such a way that others will get it. If not, then you are wasting energy and usually will just piss people off. The fact that he didn't do that and did not want to ruined his entire cause. His stubborness was his own downfall and I have not a lick of sympathy for it because of how ingrained it was.

    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    See! Point proven...your sarcasm is highly effective yet entirely irrational just like believing in Santa.

    Your cuteness has infected me and now I might reconsider my position. Might implies a probability of less than 30 percent though so don't bet on it mr. funny pants!
    Well, I guess that makes me 30% glad I decided to reply to your OP.

    More seriously, I know a bit about Jung and he was an interesting guy, and boy do I ever love mythologies of all sorts as well as fantasy fiction and art! Imagination is an important part of our humanity, but some of the things you seem to be espousing...

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    ...the myth's serve to keep order.

    ...when in reality the truth was the society needed the myth to remain stable and so lives could be nurtured...

    The myths had a moral code which served to stabilize society...

    ...the safety net of society.

    There is not a single society which has not relied on tradition for stability. We can't buck tradition and be innovators without hurting more people than not.

    ...corrosive attitude...
    ...are anti-intellectual, reactionary, and dangerous.

    Myths are the result of human imagination, not any society's supports or 'safety net.' Food, shelter, and safety keeps people alive; not fantasies. Cooperation and a common language keeps society functioning; not fantasies. Again, I say this as a lover of The Lord of the Rings, of Shiva and Odin and all the rest, and of art museums everywhere.

    And while tradition is usually convenient in our day-to-day lives, and can give us a warm-bubbly feeling inside on holidays, tradition is just as often responsible for people doing terrible things to each other. Why shouldn't we decide disagreements with deadly duels? "Because that's the way we've always settled disputes." Why shouldn't we free our slaves? "Because owning them is our traditional way of life." Why shouldn't we give non-white-male adults the right to vote? "Because tradition says they're too stupid/emotional to handle responsibility." Why shouldn't we start an unprovoked war to conquer as many of our neighbors as we can? "Because our nation has a tradition of noble warfare!" Yes, every time one of these questions has come up in the past, there have been groups of traditionalist fools who believed that society wouldn't be able to function without their beloved 'society stabilizers.' And it's still happening today; just listen to the pundits and politicians who play on people's sense of tradition and fear of change to oppress others and to hold up societal progress.

    Now that's a selfish corrosive attitude that hurts more people than not.

    I'm not saying that we should all be worshipping the memory of Socrates and his unforgiving attitude. But there's a balance to be struck; imagination is important for both the mythological stories we love and as our way of envisioning a better future and then affecting change for everyone's good. Without the latter, we'd still be living in caves beating each other with clubs.
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  9. #19
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Before reading anything in this thread but the title, let me say:

    God, yes, he was.
    At least the Platonic Socrates - the one from Xenophon seems much more reasonable, common-sensical and less of a general douchebag.

    It is my opinion that anybody who still takes Platonic philosophy seriously should get his / her philosophy licence revoked. It's of historic interest, but we've moved far, far beyond that.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  10. #20
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    Wasn't there a story of how Socrates dunked a little kid's head in water and then pulled it out at the last second just to prove a point? I hate him for that alone.


    From what little I know of him, his whole "pursuit of wisdom" life quest was self-justifued in that he felt there was no other option for him: "If your marriage fails, become a philosopher." Like you should only follow a path in life if all other options are destroyed and you can't just help out with a cause for the greater good. It's like he encouraged you to be reactionary......any fool knows that's the opposite of wisdom.

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