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  1. #71
    Senior Member Hitoshi-San's Avatar
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    They could have a desire for realism, but anyone who says happiness is unrealistic is wrong. Emotions are part of the real world, people being too similar to robots isn't.

    That's obviously not to say without fame and wealth, you can't be happy. Happiness is more centered around your self-value, how you handle life, and the people you surround yourself with.
    Likes prplchknz, Evastover liked this post

  2. #72
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    this is what i've learned, if i don't want what the rest of the world wants there's something wrong with me, but the rest of the world is unhappy. I don't think i can be happy pretending to want what they want even if it is part of the herd. so I have two choices well three actually. I can either join the rat race and become rich and pretend to agree with the world and pretend to be happy but deep down want to go to willoughby or i can say fuck it be internally happy but at the same time frustrated because what i want and what i notice about the world the rest of the doesn't. so do i stay true to myself and not have friends or do i pretend to give a fuck about things society expects me to fit in but only be a puppet? I don't like either option to be honest
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Interesting point in the bold...someone once asked Hall-of-Fame baseball legend Reggie Jackson if he was happy.
    He thought for a bit, and then replied, "Well, I don't know if I'm happy. But I'm one d@mn GLAD son-of-a-bitch!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I would say that utilitarianism is the amount of good-feeling minus the amount of bad-feeling, taken over as long a time frame as possible. Hedonism tends to have a more individualistic basis, I think. But utilitarianism is the greatest good for the greatest number. And it's amount, not percentage. Feeling good for a thousand years and bad for a hundred years is better than feeling good for ten years and bad for one year.

    I guess it's arguable whether a sense of meaning/purpose feels good or not. If it is something that be experienced, then surely it is something that feels good? But if it is not something that is experienced, then this isn't a problem. And I agree then that a meaningful life would be good, but what constitutes meaning and why is it good?
    The distinction I am making is not at all new. To be heavy handed about it, I am talking about the difference between eudomainic and hedonic happiness. I didn't want to bring out the concepts directly because I thought I could describe the difference by less conceptual means. I suppose I have not been doing a good job.

    "PLEASURE" VS "ENJOYMENT" - Coaching Leaders

    Human Body Distinguishes Between 'Hedonic' and 'Eudaimonic' Happiness on Molecular Level : Health & Medicine : Nature World News
    From the second article:
    "However, if all happiness is created equal, and if all forms of well-being are equally opposite to "ill-being," then the patterns of gene expression would be identical regardless of the source of the sense of well-being, the scientists hypothesized.
    This, it turned out, was not the case."

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield
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  4. #74
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Oh my god that would be terrible if they designed drugs to keep you happy. People would have nothing left to live for, they would just live for these drugs. We need to realise that happiness is a means, not an end.
    Soma.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #75
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    hah just read the thread title; fuckers
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #76
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    The distinction I am making is not at all new. To be heavy handed about it, I am talking about the difference between eudomainic and hedonic happiness. I didn't want to bring out the concepts directly because I thought I could describe the difference by less conceptual means. I suppose I have not been doing a good job.

    "PLEASURE" VS "ENJOYMENT" - Coaching Leaders

    Human Body Distinguishes Between 'Hedonic' and 'Eudaimonic' Happiness on Molecular Level : Health & Medicine : Nature World News
    From the second article:
    "However, if all happiness is created equal, and if all forms of well-being are equally opposite to "ill-being," then the patterns of gene expression would be identical regardless of the source of the sense of well-being, the scientists hypothesized.
    This, it turned out, was not the case."
    This is interesting. I had thought of happiness as a "YES" message being sent to the brain as opposed to the "NO" message of pain. So if I'm right about that, we have two different types of YES, one in response to an event in isolation, the other taking into account the whole picture of life. So, perhaps this is like moral and amoral happiness? Morality referring to meta-goals, or the perceived purpose of action in general, rather than the achievement of a goal for the sake of the goal. Idk, I'm just BSing.

  7. #77
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    It's not the question does someone wants or doesn't wants fame and wealth, the question is - why?

    If someone is perfectly happy without fame and wealth, that's the choice of wisdom. If someone doesn't want fame, wealth and happiness due to disappointment at life that's the act of nihilism. Self-defeated and self-destructive mechanism which is selfish at the core. That's the speech of infantile, maladjusted narcisissm. The first is the speech of altruism, an integrative, all-encomapssing force which drives humanity forward.

  8. #78
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacbad macbar View Post
    It's not the question does someone wants or doesn't wants fame and wealth, the question is - why?

    If someone is perfectly happy without fame and wealth, that's the choice of wisdom. If someone doesn't want fame, wealth and happiness due to disappointment at life that's the act of nihilism. Self-defeated and self-destructive mechanism which is selfish at the core. That's the speech of infantile, maladjusted narcisissm. The first is the speech of altruism, an integrative, all-encomapssing force which drives humanity forward.
    Hoe your real world isnt that easy aswell, you will miss a lot of things
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #79
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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  10. #80
    Member Evastover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    How would you react to people who don't desire wealth, fame, or happiness*?

    Would you believe they were kidding themselves? Would you force them to admit they do desire wealth, fame, and happiness?

    If these people said they have passing desires for these things, but the desires subside quickly, would you feel alienated? Would you alienate them?

    *By happiness, I mean being in a good mood.
    Typical INFP.

    Hehe, but in all seriousness, is this really all that uncommon? I would say that I don't really want either of those three things, defining happiness the way you did- that is, I'm satisfied when I know I've done something to make the world a better place (however overused and cliché that phrase is), but I don't necessarily want to feel "good" or "happy". The knowledge that I've accomplished what I set out to do is enough.

    As far wealth and fame go, those seem like only temporary things. Even in the rare cases that they last, happiness is derived more from the mindset they might inspire, not those things themselves. Like @lil_Red said, "Happiness is more centered around your self-value, how you handle life, and the people you surround yourself with."

    That said, I would be worried if someone said they occasionally desire happiness but the desire quickly subsides; this seems like a sign of a mental health problem.

    But would I alienate them or try to convince them they should want those things? No.

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