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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    How would you react to people who don't desire wealth, fame, or happiness*?

    Would you believe they were kidding themselves? Would you force them to admit they do desire wealth, fame, and happiness?

    If these people said they have passing desires for these things, but the desires subside quickly, would you feel alienated? Would you alienate them?

    *By happiness, I mean being in a good mood.
    Why is it important what someone else believes? Why is your reaction important?

    Why would you force anyone to admit anything? How would you force anyone to admit anything?

    What do you mean by alienate? Do you mean estrangement? As in you would find them unrelateable and would choose to disassociate from them?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'll add something here because I'm not trolling or playing games or pursuing a line of questioning in order to trip you up or trick you @ygolo.

    The opinions of people, how they reach their conclusions and whether or not they can be persuaded to change them can be something really important to people in their teens, twenties and even later. I'm often interested in how introverts and extroverts feel about this.

    Peoples beliefs have consequences, so, yeah, they are important, although what are the consequences? For you and for them, maybe they arent that major and this can afford some perspective in these matters.

    Its not a good habit to get into trying to force your beliefs on others, persuasion of someone on even a good point is very difficult and sometimes impossible, a lot of the time putting up an argument is sufficient to get them to retrench their own views and opinions. Speak your truth and allow them to speak theirs, if they are interested you can sign post them in a particular direction or telegraph views, opinions and resources to them but that's it.

    Particularly in western societies people are less and less willing to tolerate evangelism or proselytism, whatever the cause happens to be, some people dont even like people who exhibit any sort of certainty about anything. A lot of opinion is identified immediately with ideologies, schools of thought, movements toward which people have feelings, baggage, associate certain behaviours or sentiments.

    A lot gets imported into any discussion which doesnt belong there and not many people are interested in knowing their own filters or internal scripts, if you ask me, get down right hostile and angered by anyone pointing it out, in part because I think human beings are just wired for defensiveness but also because people get sore at any impression they get people are dismissing their views and by extention they themselves.

    Whether you'd be estranged from someone because of their opinions or not, well, I can see how some views arent relateable but people are more generally than their opinions on a single issue when it comes to whether or not they are compatible as a friend or associate, also the consequences matter, as I said already. Whether or not you should disassociate from them, well, that's going to be a question of consequences for me, personally, but whether or not someone simply having an opinion of their own is enough to compell thinking and behaviour on your part could be instead a reason for some introspection.

    On a side note, more generally speaking, its positively sado-masochistic to try and control the thinking of others, ultimately futile and telling on an individual, it wears people down, no matter how much self-assurity the charismatic sadist can project they're dependent upon others outside themselves.

  3. #23
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I'd need more context, but I'd likely think there's something wrong with them and pay them no mind.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Well if you edit it, you can make me say anything, can't you? Actually, I think there's an underlying state of being that isn't emotion at all. It's affirmation of being alive, the full presence which can create happiness, but is its own point. This is what lies at the apex of climbing a mountain, getting involved in a love affair, or even cutting oneself. Monkeys have it, ameobas have it, and we have to work for it.
    I didn't say it, you did! I don't understand why you're arguing, we agree completely.

  5. #25
    Member corpseparty's Avatar
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    I was driving to work today thinking about something like this.

    I have always wondered what it would be like to suddenly gain a great deal of intelligence, fame etc. and I decided that in the end nothing would really change. I would perhaps accomplish more in my life, but in the end I would wither away and die. For whatever reason that helped relax my mind. I am always afraid that I will be stuck in my state of life because of my own weakness' and coming to terms with that isn't the easiest, for anyone I imagine. Knowing that nothing would change comforted me in its own terrifying way.

  6. #26
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    I couldn't care less if someone doesn't want fame and fortune (people who pathologically seek fame and fortune tend to be self-absorbed assholes in my experience...).

    Happiness though? I call BS.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Not want happiness in life? I'd suspect you were severely depressed or suicidal.
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  7. #27
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I have a hard time imagining not wanting at least happiness.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #28
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    I'd rather have extensive knowledge than extensive happiness, although I'll take both if I can get them. Fame would get old REALLY FAST. Wealth would be nice, not for the sake of being rich, but so that I could divide my time between travel and working for myself.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I'd need more context, but I'd likely think there's something wrong with them and pay them no mind.
    I think context is important, it could be someone who is depressed and despondent or demotivated but it could be someone who is on some kind of Zen or spiritual detachment trip.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Not want happiness in life? I'd suspect you were severely depressed or suicidal.
    Yeah but it could, as I say, as easily be some Zen, no self, philosophical trip.

    I suspect that could be the case because it sounds like some sort of discussion or dialogue on that kind of topic, on the other hand it could be someone who was is talking to someone is interested in repressing their emotions, neither showing any distress, nor any joy in anything.

    I find that sort of thing is more and more typical of younger people, maybe its just that I'm getting older and its intergenerational distance but I pick up on a mood change online, and I'm aware that "my online", which is forums and social media, is smaller than the real online, the mass online, which is constituted by the X Box and other consoles and mobile network mediums.

    It used to be a social class and communities under stress thing, I know for definite that growing up at the end of the troubles and the end of (working) class consciousness in NI/UK, there was a real cultural push to be "hard", its still there too. Its more than machismo, although that's a big part of it, its about being virtually desensitised, validating the stone cold, valourising psychopathy. Were I think this could have at a time been about mental toughness, resilence or "stiff upper lip", its something else now, something right and bad since its adopted by lots of people who dont know how to act and is a barrier in the way of them learning how.

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