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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We routinely leave reality by suspending our disbelief when we see a movie, read a novel, take part in a religious ritual, appreciate art, or use mbti.

    We suspend our disbelief by turning off our critical thinking, and turning on our imaginative thinking, where we experience our imagination almost as though it were real.

    And it is this extraordinary ability to experience reality and the imagination in almost the same way that leads to the confusion between imagination and reality.

    Here we routinely confuse our imaginative use of mbti with the reality of personality.

    And typically it is this confusion between imagination and reality that is used by confidence men to manipulate us and trick us.

    Our tragedy is that we want to be manipulated by confidence men and women.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    Straightly give me examples of what you cannot apply those lines above.
    Although I am significantly more comfortable with it's weirdness now, and believe that the decoherence phenomena remove some of the obscurantist feelings of the Copenhagen Interpretation, quantum mechanics continues to not jive with my common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We routinely leave reality by suspending our disbelief when we see a movie, read a novel, take part in a religious ritual, appreciate art, or use mbti.

    We suspend our disbelief by turning off our critical thinking, and turning on our imaginative thinking, where we experience our imagination almost as though it were real.

    And it is this extraordinary ability to experience reality and the imagination in almost the same way that leads to the confusion between imagination and reality.

    Here we routinely confuse our imaginative use of mbti with the reality of personality.

    And typically it is this confusion between imagination and reality that is used by confidence men to manipulate us and trick us.

    Our tragedy is that we want to be manipulated by confidence men and women.
    Well there's that. Our imagination is powerful, and can run away with us.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #13

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    I think people are still stuck in the philosophical framework of epistemology...forcing us to be either realists or idealists.

    Might I offer semiotics as an alternative framework to break us out of this cognitive rut?

    What is Semiotics?

    I think I'll make a separate thread about it to keep this one on track.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #14
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Although I am significantly more comfortable with it's weirdness now, and believe that the decoherence phenomena remove some of the obscurantist feelings of the Copenhagen Interpretation, quantum mechanics continues to not jive with my common sense.

    Quantum mechanics actually need a scientist to be improved.
    So I guess we’ll have to wait tick tok tick tok…
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    Quantum mechanics actually need a scientist to be improved.
    So I guess we’ll have to wait tick tok tick tok…
    What are we waiting for?

    Are you saying scientists need to improve to improve humanity's understanding of the subject ?

    Or that we need scientists to be involved to improve our discussion?

    What I meant by "weirdness" are things like the results of the double slit experiment (individual "particles" acting as waves), the Uncertainty Principle and the Stern-Gerlach experiment (showing how measurement can alter what we are measuring in fundamental ways), the EPR paradox, Bell's inequality, and the GHZM experiment (showing entanglement of spatially separated particles).

    We teach these things in undergraduate physics and chemistry. They aren't THAT complicated. Nevertheless, I would think that anyone who'd guess these things from their intuition are either working in th field, or lying about what their intuition told them.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #16
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What are we waiting for?

    Are you saying scientists need to improve to improve humanity's understanding of the subject ?

    Or that we need scientists to be involved to improve our discussion?

    What I meant by "weirdness" are things like the results of the double slit experiment (individual "particles" acting as waves), the Uncertainty Principle and the Stern-Gerlach experiment (showing how measurement can alter what we are measuring in fundamental ways), the EPR paradox, Bell's inequality, and the GHZM experiment (showing entanglement of spatially separated particles).

    We teach these things in undergraduate physics and chemistry. They aren't THAT complicated. Nevertheless, I would think that anyone who'd guess these things from their intuition are either working in th field, or lying about what their intuition told them.

    What I mean, is that the process of learning a subject can sometimes require time.
    …Simply.
    If you don’t believe it, then oneday you will.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    What I mean, is that the process of learning a subject can sometimes require time.
    …Simply.
    If you don’t believe it, then oneday you will.
    Well certainly things take time to learn.

    But the trained intuition of a pro(which I am not, here) is quite different from the common sense form of intuition .

    Most people(usually children) when they hear about even atoms being made of electrons and a nucleus reflexively think of it as another solar system.

    When I'm talking about common sense, I am referring to this reflexive unexamined form of intuition.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #18
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Well certainly things take time to learn.

    But the trained intuition of a pro(which I am not, here) is quite different from the common sense form of intuition .

    Most people(usually children) when they hear about even atoms being made of electrons and a nucleus reflexively think of it as another solar system.

    When I'm talking about common sense, I am referring to this reflexive unexamined form of intuition.

    Yeah keep on talking, That’s sweet.
    It’s like a flash back of my thoughts a year ago when I’d my brain was exposed to hardcore physics at young age.
    Last edited by Mademoiselle; 11-30-2014 at 04:34 PM. Reason: +had
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    Yeah keep on talking, That’s sweet.
    It’s like a flash back of my thoughts a year ago when I’d my brain was exposed to hardcore physics at young age.
    What happened?

    Edit: I may be misinterpreting, but I feel I may have offended you somehow. This was not my intention.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What happened?

    Edit: I may be misinterpreting, but I feel I may have offended you somehow. This was not my intention.

    No you have not.
    What happened in my case, is that after considering how informations and subjects are unlimited, and we’re limited.
    And realising that I’d need that subject learnt few years later, I’d give it time to improve until I can think about it again.
    Right now all those thoughts are frozen.
    I’ve reached to some basic conclusions, I’d mention few for you.
    -Every creation -apart from the creator- comes in pairs, dichotomies.
    -Perfection is balance.
    -This universe is moving one cycle after getting pushed by a single force.
    -Yes, it means we’re actually messed up version of a perfect matter that is moving in the direction of perfection again.
    -Chakras exist.
    .
    .
    The rest of Quantium physics is all questionable as I’m not even sure of the construction of a single Atom.
    But I know everything follows the basic rules, and whenever I find out I’d get even more impressed.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.
    Likes Opal liked this post

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