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  1. #1
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    Default Chimpanzees are not human, but are they 'people'?

    Is a chimpanzee a 'person'? A lawsuit could hold the answer
    New York court asked to consider chimpanzees legal persons so captive ones can be set free
    Chimpanzees aren't humans, but are they similar enough to humans that they should be given some of the same legal rights as us? That's essentially the question before a New York court in a thought-provoking case that raises legal, scientific and philosophical issues.

    An animal rights group called the Nonhuman Rights Project is trying to free a captive chimpanzee named Tommy using a novel and historic legal argument.

    For the first time in a U.S. court it was argued that a non-human animal should be recognized as a legal person. The group maintains that chimpanzees shouldn't be thought of as "things" that can be owned but as "persons" who therefore have fundamental rights — namely, the right to liberty.

    The group wants Tommy declared a legal person so it can get what's called a writ of habeas corpus, which would then allow the courts to determine if a person's detention is lawful.

    In other words, if Tommy were considered a person his owners would have a hard time justifying his captivity, but as long as he's a "thing," it's fine to keep him locked up. His owners say, in fact, that according to the law he has to be fenced in and is not allowed to roam around their property.

    "Sometimes people think we're trying to get human rights for chimpanzees. We're not. We're trying to get chimpanzee rights for chimpanzees," Steven Wise, the group's president and an animal protection lawyer, said in an interview.

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Considering the documented changes in chimp personality that occur after puberty and chimp attacks that have occurred by even supposedly benign chimps, I think if we would like to give them their "freedom" (which is arguably a good thing), they need to be sent back to the natural habitat... either that, or chimps who commit acts of violence against other "people" need to be locked up / given the death penalty / whatever local laws attest to.

    (And this can lead to more fun, like what if a chimp rapes or kills another chimp? They're both people. Now they have to be tried.... and I guess the "jury of their peers" could be a fascinating exercise in observation depending on how literally we plan to take this.)

    Are chimps who are legally people allowed to drive motor vehicles and drink alcohol when they become legal age? What about voting? (And, frighteningly enough... will it radically change anything in this country? )
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  3. #3
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Considering the documented changes in chimp personality that occur after puberty and chimp attacks that have occurred by even supposedly benign chimps, I think if we would like to give them their "freedom" (which is a good thing), they need to be sent back to the natural habitat... either that, or chimps who commit acts of violence against other "people" need to be locked up / given the death penalty.

    (And this can lead to more fun, like what if a chimp rapes or kills another chimp? They're both people. Now they have to be tried.... and I guess the "jury of their peers" could be a fascinating exercise in observation depending on how literally we plan to take this.)
    I would buy tickets to see that.

    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Chimps are capable of everything people are, running moving services, manning NASA spacecraft, performing complicated surgeries. Of course they should have rights.


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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I would buy tickets to see that.

    It's just a whole can of worms that hasn't been considered.
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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  6. #6
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's just a whole can of worms that hasn't been considered.
    probably has, just not with anyone who has the business sense or the money to pull it off
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #7
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    :/

    "Sometimes people think we're trying to get human rights for chimpanzees. We're not. We're trying to get chimpanzee rights for chimpanzees."

    "Should we allow people to keep chimpanzees as pets?" is a question framed relative to humans and human property rights. The question being raised here is "Should chimpanzees have the right to not be kept as pets?" Given their cognitive abilities is it cruel and unusual to keep chimps?

    If anything I think the biggest risk is to zoos and other wildlife preservation groups who technically are "keeping" chimps, but are doing so for good reasons (rehabilitation, population recovery programs, etc.).
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    Senior Member cm81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Chimps are capable of everything people are, running moving services, manning NASA spacecraft, performing complicated surgeries. Of course they should have rights.

    Totally off topic, but who the heck is that band playing in the intro?!?

    ****Nevermind! lol

    I had washed out (A dedication) quietly playing in another tab.... weird how the first few seconds of that song gave this cartoon a nice ambiance.
    Last edited by cm81; 11-14-2014 at 05:23 PM. Reason: And that's why I'm wierd.
    "The true genius shudders at incompleteness, preferring silence to everything that it should be." Edgar Allen Poe

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    Just waiting to burst out.
    There world is a goldmine-
    That will melt tomorrow."M83
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  9. #9
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    i think i'm gonna become a chimp. if they're getting equal rights everyone has to hire to me cuz i'm such a minority that if someone says no they'd get sued by human right groups. it's actually a genius plan.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  10. #10
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    i think i'm gonna become a chimp. if they're getting equal rights everyone has to hire to me cuz i'm such a minority that if someone says no they'd get sued by human right groups. it's actually a genius plan.
    Likes prplchknz liked this post

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