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View Poll Results: Does philosphy often matter to real world actions?

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  • Yes, often

    11 78.57%
  • Usually not

    3 21.43%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    King Arthur was an ideologue. Arthur put his ideas, such as the Round Table, into practice.

    And Arthur is the ideologue for you, because we first need to be mastered before we can master ourself.

    However if you meet a philosopher, she might tell you No God, no master. Then where would you be without someone to master you, you would be unable to master yourself.

    So an ideologue will master you, you will internalise your servility and be able to master yourself; or a philosopher will set you free.
    King Arthur to me represents all that is good in humanity. If the philosopher is the enemy of King Arthur, then the philosopher must die or be silenced because the world needs the Round Table more than anything else.

  2. #12
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I think this might be circular logic, but I was thinking that a philosophy, no matter how grand or mundane, informs the actions and if it didn't, then it wasn't a philosophy to that person in the first place.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    King Arthur was an ideologue. Arthur put his ideas, such as the Round Table, into practice.

    And Arthur is the ideologue for you, because we first need to be mastered before we can master ourself.

    However if you meet a philosopher, she might tell you No God, no master. Then where would you be without someone to master you, you would be unable to master yourself.

    So an ideologue will master you, you will internalise your servility and be able to master yourself; or a philosopher will set you free.
    I believe in freedom from despotism, freedom to feel think, talk and assemble as I please, freedom from the tyranny of others, and even freedom from the tyranny of myself.

    If I choose to be servile, to humanity, to my friends, family, and those that rely on me, to a great purpose, to mastery of a mind on the brink of madness, that will be my choice.

    Total Freedom is an illusion, or a sign of madness. Total Freedom from the care of your fellow people is psychopathy. Total Freedom from reality is psychosis. Total Freedom from humility is narcissism. Total Freedom from self control is Borderline.

    To make a choice and not be constrained by that choice is an illusion of having chosen.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I think this might be circular logic, but I was thinking that a philosophy, no matter how grand or mundane, informs the actions and if it didn't, then it wasn't a philosophy to that person in the first place.
    Definitions are, by their nature, circular.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #15
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LION4!5 View Post
    King Arthur to me represents all that is good in humanity. If the philosopher is the enemy of King Arthur, then the philosopher must die or be silenced because the world needs the Round Table more than anything else.
    Quite so.

    And the followers of King Arthur are following in the footsteps of the good people of Athens who put our first philosopher, Socrates, to death.

    And this is our tragedy, as the best of Western culture stems from Socrates.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I choose to be servile.
    Then philosophy is not for you. And you join the servile of Athens three thousand years ago, and you find your home among the servile today.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Then philosophy is not for you. And you join the servile of Athens three thousand years ago, and you find your home among the servile today.
    That was a masterful removal of context.

    It's at times like this, that I feel like asking, "What do you mean by 'philosophy'?" and such things.

    I find it confusing that you say that Socrates is antithetical to what Arthur preached. Of course, it is unlikely that the two were in complete agreement (as it is unlikely that any two people will be). But in what substantive ways are they opposed?

    How does a group of select Athenians prompting Socrates to take his own life have to do with the Round Table and those ideas?

    There are iconoclastic philosophers, and there were philosophers accepted in their time.

    Other than a declaration by you that being rejected and marginalized is a requirement for being a philosopher, what basis do we have for such dichotomies?

    To be clear, I am genuinely confused by your statements. I am not trying to trap you into anything?

    Which of these were philosophers in your scheme?

    Plato
    Aristotle
    Kant
    Hume
    Galileo
    Mach
    Einstein
    Nietzsche
    Derrida
    Foucault
    Hitchens

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #18
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I think this might be circular logic, but I was thinking that a philosophy, no matter how grand or mundane, informs the actions and if it didn't, then it wasn't a philosophy to that person in the first place.
    Nah. Pretty sure the standard definition of philosophy is sitting around talking/thinking about shit.

    Acting on it would be ideal, but I don't think it's inherent in the idea.

    One reason why Philosophy majors can have very deep thoughts about being unemployed.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Nah. Pretty sure the standard definition of philosophy is sitting around talking/thinking about shit.

    Acting on it would be ideal, but I don't think it's inherent in the idea.

    One reason why Philosophy majors can have very deep thoughts about being unemployed.
    I suppose I was thinking of the idea that everyone is, at some level, a philsopher.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Nah. Pretty sure the standard definition of philosophy is sitting around talking/thinking about shit.

    Acting on it would be ideal, but I don't think it's inherent in the idea.

    One reason why Philosophy majors can have very deep thoughts about being unemployed.
    Philosophy frees us from the taken for granted. Philosophy frees us from our unconscious assumptions. Philosophy does not tell us what to do. Philosophy does not show us the good life.

    If these things are true, philosophy is not for most of us.

    In fact most of us are deeply and trenchantly opposed to philosophy. We prefer the shared fantasies of religion or popular culture to the delight of freeing ourselves.

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