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  1. #181
    Senior Member BluRoses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Define God.
    How many times are you going to ask that? YOU define God, you nutty cat!
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  2. #182
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont really share the view of the scriptures you do, although I was suggesting that getting hung up on the literalism and solo scripture is deeply mistaken.

    If you consider some significant atheists from long ago Marx, Fuerbach or other more contemporary ones Fromm, Vernon they rightly love the text, it is a foundation text of western civilisation, influencing language, thinking, conceptualisation and mind but none of that is important to the people who belittle and dismiss it for their own reasons, usually to do with very contemporaneous experiences with very contemporaneous, and contemptably ignorant, individuals.

    The struggle between bad religion and bad atheism is a perfect example of ignorant change facing off against ignorant opposition.
    I agree that our world would be unrecognizable without the influence of Christianity. We would not have the same metaphors, religion would be almost completely polytheistic, and we would likely have not salvaged the treasure of knowledge from Rome, as the church did its part to hold on to ancient wisdom until science got back on its feet.
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  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I agree that our world would be unrecognizable without the influence of Christianity. We would not have the same metaphors, religion would be almost completely polytheistic, and we would likely have not salvaged the treasure of knowledge from Rome, as the church did its part to hold on to ancient wisdom until science got back on its feet.
    I think its a mistake to see science as a rival or antagonistic to roman catholicism, there are prominant jesuits in lots of research roles

  4. #184
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont really share the view of the scriptures you do, although I was suggesting that getting hung up on the literalism and solo scripture is deeply mistaken.

    If you consider some significant atheists from long ago Marx, Fuerbach or other more contemporary ones Fromm, Vernon they rightly love the text, it is a foundation text of western civilisation, influencing language, thinking, conceptualisation and mind but none of that is important to the people who belittle and dismiss it for their own reasons, usually to do with very contemporaneous experiences with very contemporaneous, and contemptably ignorant, individuals.

    The struggle between bad religion and bad atheism is a perfect example of ignorant change facing off against ignorant opposition.
    It has been a while since I read the Bible, and yes I do accept that it is a significant part of Western civilisation, from both a cultural and legal point of view.

    When I decided to become Atheist, it wasn't due to me deciding the Bible wasn't the truth I was taught, but a variety of factors - also, reading any Atheist literature came afterwards (even then, I haven't read a lot - I've still to read anything by Richard Dawkins for example).

    As for bad Atheism, my principles don't fit with Marx, I used to hang out with Marxists for a while and felt completely out of place. The insurgence of Right Wing Atheism recently leaves a bitter taste in my mouth also. I don't hesitate to correct other Atheists where necessary...

  5. #185
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluRoses View Post
    How many times are you going to ask that? YOU define God, you nutty cat!
    1. As many times as it needs to be asked to gain clarity in a post.
    2. I don't need to define a term for clarity that I did not use in my post.

    If someone posts: "What has God given you?" from my perspective, there's nothing nutty about asking what the heck they're referring to.

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    It has been a while since I read the Bible, and yes I do accept that it is a significant part of Western civilisation, from both a cultural and legal point of view.

    When I decided to become Atheist, it wasn't due to me deciding the Bible wasn't the truth I was taught, but a variety of factors - also, reading any Atheist literature came afterwards (even then, I haven't read a lot - I've still to read anything by Richard Dawkins for example).

    As for bad Atheism, my principles don't fit with Marx, I used to hang out with Marxists for a while and felt completely out of place. The insurgence of Right Wing Atheism recently leaves a bitter taste in my mouth also. I don't hesitate to correct other Atheists where necessary...
    I dont know why you'd consider Marx or Marxism bad atheism.

    I'm not sure about right wing atheism, I'd assume that's objectivism like Ayn Rand's thinking.
    Likes The Wailing Specter liked this post

  7. #187
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know why you'd consider Marx or Marxism bad atheism.

    I'm not sure about right wing atheism, I'd assume that's objectivism like Ayn Rand's thinking.
    Atheism with added extras is sometimes marred by those added extras...

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    Atheism with added extras is sometimes marred by those added extras...
    To be honest, whether its religion or irreligion, to my mind its the supposed added extras which really matter.

    How you gonna act? You know?
    Likes The Wailing Specter liked this post

  9. #189
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To be honest, whether its religion or irreligion, to my mind its the supposed added extras which really matter.

    How you gonna act? You know?
    It's difficult to avoid the added extras with religion. I tend to keep away from the added stuff, essentially it's more rules to follow, and I don't like extra rules to follow anyway.

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    It's difficult to avoid the added extras with religion. I tend to keep away from the added stuff, essentially it's more rules to follow, and I don't like extra rules to follow anyway.
    Yeah, no one seems to place any values upon rules or rule bound behaviour anymore, a lot of those rules are the product of centuries of experience and learning, wanting to do without them is like wanting society to descend to something like the disorders featured in movies like 50 first dates or Memento, constantly reinventing the wheel, locked constant, painful relearning each generation or even more frequently than that, failing to learn from history because there's no history to learn from or none which doesnt feel like a betrayal of principle for scrutinising for direction in the first place.

    Its not a matter of valuing those things because they are familiar, seem sensible, work or possess a more "concrete" or "practical" character either, I'm not even sure that its a matter of shared institutions as external to the self are a surer means of achieving adjustment, adaptation and happiness than the internal self, its logically superior to use the wheel than reinvent it daily, a matter of calculation and judgement.

    To be honest where it not for the questions and answers which stem from conclusions about the existence or non-existence of God, which are the "added extras" or "rules", then I dont see why it would matter at all, I dont see why anyone would give it any thought what so ever, in fact it would be about as important as questions about what's your favourite Marvel or DC hero or what's your favourite colour.

    Description for most people involves prescription and isnt a stand alone academic issue.
    Likes Luke O liked this post

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