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  1. #101
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    The thing about the kid athiest arguments in this thread is that the "God" they object to (nice one considering you dont believe in God's existence BTW) I dont believe any theist would object to either.

    I read an interesting history of buddhism today which echoed some speculation about Maimonides I read a while back which suggested that Buddha just felt the whole question couldnt be known or answered and so it did deserve to occupy peoples minds.

  2. #102
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    I've had quite enough of this sappy "IF GOD WUZ WEEL TEHN WHY DID MUH PUPPY DIE?!?!?!" bullshit in arguments of spirituality.



    I've said this before, but there's no obligation for the omnipotent master of the universe to be "kind and loving" according to meager human-made standards of ethos. If any of our morals are true, it's because god invented them and gave them to us; and if he didn't give them to us, whatever we believe is dogshit.

    Why? Because Might is Right. God is omnipotent. Therefore he is right. No amount of force is sufficient to resist him, so it's a lost cause to do anything but submit.

    If God tells you to slaughter millions and you disobey because you think it's "wrong," you risk losing the entire human species to God's wrath. Get over your fantasy altruism and start thinking about the greater good of your species. It's not wrong if God says it's not wrong.


    And no, you can't start an armed revolt against God either. It's not like Clash of the Titans where he feeds upon your glory to live--if that were the case, he could've just refrained from putting his creative energy into humans in order to conserve his energy. Which means that we need him more than he needs us.

    Disobey god, lose your civilization to him. If one disobeys, the nation suffers. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.




    Blood for the Blood God.
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  3. #103
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @Nihilogen

    It's less about what god actually is and more about the claims people make about god not making sense.

    Also the god you describe would be great for misanthropes looking for a shortcut to wipe out humanity.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Nihilogen

    It's less about what god actually is and more about the claims people make about god not making sense.

    Also the god you describe would be great for misanthropes looking for a shortcut to wipe out humanity.
    It's because a lot of the arguments I hear against the possibility of a god are complaints that a benevolent god wouldn't allow for the existence of evil in the world or personal suffering upon humans. It's not a sound argument, but I see it everywhere anyway and it's limp as a noodle.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Blood for the Blood God.
    "Blood and souls! Blood and souls for my Lord Arioch!"
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  6. #106
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    It's because a lot of the arguments I hear against the possibility of a god are complaints that a benevolent god wouldn't allow for the existence of evil in the world or personal suffering upon humans. It's not a sound argument, but I see it everywhere anyway and it's limp as a noodle.
    I've learned to get away from that.

    TBH I shouldn't even be in this thread because it's utterly pointless. But discussion calls to me like I'm some kind of crackhead looking for a fix. Gives me my jollies for a minute until I realize I could be doing something more useful, such as drowning in a river.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Blood for the Blood God.
    Glad to know there's a fellow Moorcock reader on the forum!

    I agree that if there is an all-powerful god, such a deity must by necessity be uncaring and possibly outright cruel. But sprinkles is also right that the puppy argument is about how people view god rather than what god may or may not be. A lot of modern first-world people walk around thinking of their god as this omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being; and this vision is much easier to poke holes in than a merely omnipotent god.

  8. #108
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Glad to know there's a fellow Moorcock reader on the forum!

    I agree that if there is an all-powerful god, such a deity must by necessity be uncaring and possibly outright cruel. But sprinkles is also right that the puppy argument is about how people view god rather than what god may or may not be. A lot of modern first-world people walk around thinking of their god as this omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being; and this vision is much easier to poke holes in than a merely omnipotent god.
    It also depends on if we go by essence or by definition. If god is not benevolent, then by definition benevolent god does not exist. But if you look at the essence which is 'god' instead of the adjective which is 'benevolent' one might be able to propose that god exists, but we're wrong about its properties.

  9. #109
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    That mystical experience is real, I don't doubt. Mysticism is merely stuff about life we can't yet explain. Whether or not that mystical experience is the result of an omnipotent being, who knows and who really cares? It's clear such a being, if it did exist, has no interest in any kind of intervention so it's existence is less important than it's apparent lack of interest in the goings on of humanity.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    I've had quite enough of this sappy "IF GOD WUZ WEEL TEHN WHY DID MUH PUPPY DIE?!?!?!" bullshit in arguments of spirituality.
    That's actually untrue, because god is by defintion perfect in all senses. If he is morally falliable, then he cannot be perfect. If he is not perfect, then he is not god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    I've said this before, but there's no obligation for the omnipotent master of the universe to be "kind and loving" according to meager human-made standards of ethos. If any of our morals are true, it's because god invented them and gave them to us; and if he didn't give them to us, whatever we believe is dogshit.
    It isn't about god being kind or loving per se, just that perfection is violated by moral failings. Another consequence of imperfection is that any insipred works (such as the Bible) can no longer be claimed as perfect. Other questions also arise about his degree of power (i.e. an imperfect being cannot be assumed to have limitless power).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Why? Because Might is Right. God is omnipotent. Therefore he is right. No amount of force is sufficient to resist him, so it's a lost cause to do anything but submit.

    If God tells you to slaughter millions and you disobey because you think it's "wrong," you risk losing the entire human species to God's wrath. Get over your fantasy altruism and start thinking about the greater good of your species. It's not wrong if God says it's not wrong.
    If you read the OT, you will see that the Biblical God has a suspiciously anthropomorphic personality (e.g. temper tantrums, and contradictary statements).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    And no, you can't start an armed revolt against God either. It's not like Clash of the Titans where he feeds upon your glory to live--if that were the case, he could've just refrained from putting his creative energy into humans in order to conserve his energy. Which means that we need him more than he needs us.

    Disobey god, lose your civilization to him. If one disobeys, the nation suffers. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

    Blood for the Blood God.
    Likes The Wailing Specter liked this post

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