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  1. #1
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Default Victor and Beethoven

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    "While Bach created the soundtrack for the Church
    And Beethoven created the soundtrack for the bourgeoisie,
    Mozart wrote music".
    (I really enjoy this quote, Victor. I think I'd like to explore it a bit...)


    The bourgeoisie.
    Salesman, all the way.
    Be careful.
    Often the bourgeoisie will inform you that you are among them,
    As a way to reign your interest.

    Your dates remind me of a sales transaction.
    I remember my first dates, too.
    Many days ago.

    Emotional currency is often the universal coin we seek.
    Especially on dates.
    We create present connection,
    While ensuring future gains.

    It's probably a good thing more men don't realize this.
    Emotion is instinct.
    When folks use our instincts against us,
    It becomes less about symbiosis,
    And more about personal protection.

    Security is a facet of love.
    Insecurity isn't.

    Beethoven was indeed a bourgeoisie.
    So are we.

    Let's make sure our sales pitch is pure.

  2. #2
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    (I really enjoy this quote, Victor. I think I'd like to explore it a bit...)


    The bourgeoisie.
    Salesman, all the way.
    Be careful.
    Often the bourgeoisie will inform you that you are among them,
    As a way to reign your interest.

    Your dates remind me of a sales transaction.
    I remember my first dates, too.
    Many days ago.

    Emotional currency is often the universal coin we seek.
    Especially on dates.
    We create present connection,
    While ensuring future gains.

    It's probably a good thing more men don't realize this.
    Emotion is instinct.
    When folks use our instincts against us,
    It becomes less about symbiosis,
    And more about personal protection.

    Security is a facet of love.
    Insecurity isn't.

    Beethoven was indeed a bourgeoisie.
    So are we.

    Let's make sure our sales pitch is pure.
    We both come off the same tree.

    You came off about 400 years ago and we came off about 200 years ago. So we are different branches of the same tree.

    You came off at the time of the Royal Ascendency while we came off at the time of the Aristocratic Ascendency.

    In the meantime you have democratised Royalty and each one of you is a little king or queen. For instance, you elect a King every four years, and before long you will even elect a Queen. So each one of you has the manners and mores of Royalty.

    While we have democratised Aristocracy and each one of us is a little aristocrat. And each one of us has the manners and mores of aristocracy - we love the outdoors, we are brutal and we are deeply jealous of anyone who pretends to be King. In fact our national sport is loping the heads off tall poppies. And our sense of humour is deprecatory, and not just self-deprecatory.

    We do have a Queen, Elizabeth, and although we treat her with the utmost respect and even love, we keep her politically weak, even impotent.

    So when we speak with one another it is always Royalty speaking with the Aristocracy.

    This is most interesting because out of the conversation between Royalty and the Aristocracy, democracy was born.

    In the final analysis, you love a Salesman and indeed your great Tragedy is called, "Death of a Salesman".

    And whereas you love a winner, we love a loser. And indeed our National Hero is a loser. And his name is Ned Kelly. And we even have a saying, "Game as Ned Kelly".

    And our national holiday, ANZAC Day, is a remembrance of a military defeat at Gallipoli.

    And our unofficial national anthem is a song about a loser - a swagman, whom you would call a bum, who drowned himself in a billabong* after being caught duffing** sheep. You will no doubt hear it sung at the Bejing Olympics.

    Let the conversation continue.

    * a billabong is a pond on a floodplain

    ** and duffing is stealing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    A transitional phase in the redistribution of power - military, economic & political...

    The bourgeoisie seek power but are lazy. They know economic and political power will give a better hand than a big fist and so take the line of least resistance.

    Your Queen (and mine) has no balls. Like an Ottoman Prince, given to the harem - paradoxically castrated. That she still has a poet is more a sentimental gesture than one of any great remark. We couldn't bear to chop off the King's head so we deprived him of power and put him in a harem. You can watch the sideshow in our tabloids - a freak show for the masses. A chinless circus of inbred fantasia.

    And Ratslinger. A charlatan of the first order, heading a redundant behemoth that becomes more irrelevant by the day.

    Beethoven wrote for the bourgeoisie and Bach for the Church. The strata of power distribution is interesting point. The Church commanded economic, political and military power once. Now it has nothing.

    What is interesting is that the Church and Royalty are no longer serenaded. This reflects the relative redistribution of power.

    But power that has been abdicated voluntarily by the proletariat.

    Should Bach and Beethoven be alive today, who would they write for? Perhaps nobody. And , Mozart? Perhaps everyone.

    Here in the UK, one finds many people refer to themselves as "working class"- but like the Queen's poet, this is more romantic illusion. The only "working class" now are unemployed. Like their Queen.

    Mozart was truly working class. His inability (or wish) to play the game Bach and Beethoven played is obvious. But then again, Bach and Beethoven were bourgeoisie.

    Forgive my lowbrow take on this thread.

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