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  1. #21
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    I’ll preface this with a well-known fact: mental illness is multifactorial therefore experiences differ from person to person.

    The notion that you need full emotional health to be wise is erroneous as there are different levels of severity for every illness, different minds, and lives being affected therefore you can’t make blanket statements on such conditions. Those who do have little knowledge or experience with mental illness. Hence, I don’t have a strong opinion on the mentally ill. The only characteristic I find amongst them is an inability to carry out a ‘normal’ tasks; live a ‘normal’ life. I feel empathy for them but I’m hesitant to blame all their mistakes and faults on a mental illness.




    No, this is a romanticisation of mental illness and is just as pervasive.
    How is that romanticising mental illness? Those with greater struggles often are forced to dig deeper to find meaning and truth. Going through hardship and dark times builds empathy, perspective, and strength. It can also break you down to rock bottom before you get to that point. Some people never get there, but those who do are further along than the ones who were never forced to find meaning and hope in the midst of hell.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  2. #22
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    How is that romanticising mental illness? Those with greater struggles often are forced to dig deeper to find meaning and truth.
    This doesn't happen to everyone.

    Going through hardship and dark times builds empathy, perspective, and strength. It can also break you down to rock bottom before you get to that point. Some people never get there, but those who do are further along than the ones who were never forced to find meaning and hope in the midst of hell.
    Not for everyone and not all the time. Not everyone experiences depression the same way, some people recover through medication and never experience the enlightenment that others do. Please don't generalise.

  3. #23
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    @Deceptive I explicitly said "some people never get there."

    I'm the first one to say that every individual has a unique experience. But you seem to be discounting the rewards that come from working through such a deep and difficult issues.

    Edit: I don't think those who recover through medication are exempt from gaining wisdom from their experiences. Not one bit.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #24
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    @Deceptive I explicitly said "some people never get there."

    I'm the first one to say that every individual has a unique experience. But you seem to be discounting the rewards that come from working through such a deep and difficult issues.
    I'm not discounting rewards from working through depression.I recognise that. My stance is that not everyone has the opportunity to work through that. Not everyone has an experience in which they can work through it, some people move on as if their lives hadn't changed.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    In context of the ongoing exchange here, and based on my own experiences, yes, it's always very textured to the degree I can't really comment on the things I've experienced in terms of "summing them up."

    There are things I learned from dealing with chronic depression and anxiety (and I was medicated and treated as an outpatient) that I am grateful to have learned; at the same time, those were some of the most horrible periods of my life. So I find I can't sum them up into a bumper-sticker slogan. They were both remarkably helpful and horrible at once; I wish I could have learned what I did in some other way, but I'm not sure what that way would have been... and it's never "over," it's ongoing. Dealing with such things is still part of my life, even if I'm no longer under medical or therapeutic treatement; the resonances echo onwards through time.

    So I can't bring myself to glamorize it or criticize it, it was just (and remains) a series of experiences that contributed to whom I am and will continue to be a part of me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    In context of the ongoing exchange here, and based on my own experiences, yes, it's always very textured to the degree I can't really comment on the things I've experienced in terms of "summing them up."

    There are things I learned from dealing with chronic depression and anxiety (and I was medicated and treated as an outpatient) that I am grateful to have learned; at the same time, those were some of the most horrible periods of my life. So I find I can't sum them up into a bumper-sticker slogan. They were both remarkably helpful and horrible at once; I wish I could have learned what I did in some other way, but I'm not sure what that way would have been... and it's never "over," it's ongoing. Dealing with such things is still part of my life, even if I'm no longer under medical or therapeutic treatement; the resonances echo onwards through time.

    So I can't bring myself to glamorize it or criticize it, it was just (and remains) a series of experiences that contributed to whom I am and will continue to be a part of me.
    yeah but you can gain wisdom from any experience, not just emotional and brain ones. so is it the mental illness that's make you wiser or the fact that you have to work through/figure something out that is making you wiser?
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yeah but you can gain wisdom from any experience, not just emotional and brain ones. so is it the mental illness that's make you wiser or the fact that you have to work through/figure something out that is making you wiser?
    It could be either or both, depending on the specifics. For example, sometimes an "illness" reveals life to you from a certain perspective, or exposes some kind of life experience to you, that you might not have gained from a different "illness."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It could be either or both, depending on the specifics.
    yeah I guess mental illness is too broad of a term. but I still think a lot of the wisdom is gained through the suffering of the illness and working through the shit. and each experience we have we can gain wisdom, we usually don't cuz humans are stubborn and think"if i keep banging my head against this wall there will be a hole" and perhaps depending on what the wall is made of (like plaster more than likely) (brick you'll probably get brain damage and end up really stupid)
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yeah I guess mental illness is too broad of a term. but I still think a lot of the wisdom is gained through the suffering of the illness and working through the shit. and each experience we have we can gain wisdom, we usually don't cuz humans are stubborn and think"if i keep banging my head against this wall there will be a hole" and perhaps depending on what the wall is made of (like plaster more than likely) (brick you'll probably get brain damage and end up really stupid)
    We can learn from experiences involving mental illness, certainly... but there are people who manage to do fine without experiencing it as well. And knowledge is always two-edged. Maybe someone might not have so much detailed life experience that allows them to process life in a more complex way, if they don't suffer; at the same time, is suffering (and this degree of suffering) mandatory towards experiencing a fulfilling life or necessary in order to gain relevant knowledge? Is being more innocent of such things going to detract from someone's quality of life? I don't know. It seems complex and somewhat specific to the individual.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    We can learn from experiences involving mental illness, certainly... but there are people who manage to do fine without experiencing it as well. And knowledge is always two-edged. Maybe someone might not have so much detailed life experience that allows them to process life in a more complex way, if they don't suffer; at the same time, is suffering (and this degree of suffering) mandatory towards experiencing a fulfilling life or necessary in order to gain relevant knowledge? Is being more innocent of such things going to detract from someone's quality of life? I don't know. It seems complex and somewhat specific to the individual.
    yeah that's sort of what i'm saying. but not really i'm not saying that mental illness causes wisdom. at all, I'm saying that experience does and a non-mentally ill person can suffer great lost work through it and be just as wise as someone who had depression
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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