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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Default Faith and Reason by R. C. Sproul

    [Sproul rhymes with "soul"]

    "Without reason, the content of biblical faith would be unintelligible and meaningless. So we say that biblical faith is not the same as reason, but that faith is rational and reasonable. The first assertion that faith is rational means that faith is intelligible. It is not absurd or illogical. If biblical revelation were absurd and irrational, it would be utterly unintelligible and meaningless. The content of the Bible cannot pierce the soul of a sentient creature without first going through the mind."
    Ligonier Ministries | Tabletalk Magazine


    Sproul is a Presbyterian theologian.

    I just posted this in case someone might be interested in this point of view.

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    Religious thought can be highly advanced. I think if this age is to appreciate these kind of ideas (even if they choose not to accept it) it will come from a rearticulation at a very thoughtful and holistic level. Because of historical/cultural circumstances, faith is often seen now as sort of an enemy. It is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gokartride View Post
    Religious thought can be highly advanced. I think if this age is to appreciate these kind of ideas (even if they choose not to accept it) it will come from a rearticulation at a very thoughtful and holistic level. Because of historical/cultural circumstances, faith is often seen now as sort of an enemy. It is not.
    The Roman Catholic Church has an official doctrine of Faith and Reason.

    However when you examine it, Faith comes first and Reason only elucidates Faith.

    In fact in 1907, Pope Pius X, in the Encyclical, Pascendi Dominici Gregis, condemned Modernism as a Heresy.

    And Modernism as you know is based firmly on the Enlightenment and Reason.

    In fact the doctrine of Faith and Reason it there for propaganda purposes as they don't want to be seen as opposed to the great success of Science.

    And Science is based entirely on the Enlightenment and Reason.

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    The boundaries we are so accustomed to creating and defending are artificial...all of it (faith, reason, enlightenment) is connected.

    Why, faith even has a place in science!!!

    As for Modernism....enlightenment is fine, reason is fine.....but where certain excesses/distortions emerge something is generally said.

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    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    However when you examine it, Faith comes first and Reason only elucidates Faith.
    Without reason, how could a person possibly come to understand their need for a savior? It is reason that is innately there - everyone has it. Faith comes later after a person realizes their need for a righteousness greater than their own.

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    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Roman Catholic Church has an official doctrine of Faith and Reason.

    However when you examine it, Faith comes first and Reason only elucidates Faith.

    In fact in 1907, Pope Pius X, in the Encyclical, Pascendi Dominici Gregis, condemned Modernism as a Heresy.

    And Modernism as you know is based firmly on the Enlightenment and Reason.

    In fact the doctrine of Faith and Reason it there for propaganda purposes as they don't want to be seen as opposed to the great success of Science.

    And Science is based entirely on the Enlightenment and Reason.
    Modernism is a technical term in Catholic theology. Are you using the term in that sense?

    Catholic Encyclopedia: Modernism (1911)
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    Without reason, how could a person possibly come to understand their need for a savior? It is reason that is innately there - everyone has it. Faith comes later after a person realizes their need for a righteousness greater than their own.
    Odd. It was through reason I discovered christianity to be a scam.

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    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    I guess some people are less reasonable than others?

    Without reason you wouldn't have come to a decision on the matter anyway. Regardless of the presence or absence of faith.

    Reason is first. That is my point - not whether or not Christianity is true/right for everyone.

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    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Modernism is a technical term in Catholic theology. Are you using the term in that sense?

    Catholic Encyclopedia: Modernism (1911)
    I think the "modernism" that he's referring to is the Western intellectual and cultural movement that took place in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries that sought to reintroduce the ideals of the enlightenment (scientific knowledge, technology, positivism). Perhaps a better term for it is "modernity".
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Modernism is a technical term in Catholic theology. Are you using the term in that sense?

    Catholic Encyclopedia: Modernism (1911)
    I think when Pius X declared Modernism to be a heresy, he was being defensive, without imagination or a sense of morality.

    Fortunately Vatican II reversed this decision, and the Church made its peace with Modernity.

    For instance, the Roman Catholic Church, does not believe in or teach Creationism.

    And the Roman Catholic Church teaches the separation of Church and State and rigorously practises it.

    So Roman Catholicism is now a normal and acceptable religion in a modern, democratic, secular society.

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