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  1. #1

    Default When someone asserts to be true something you find ridiculous...

    How do you respond? Why?

    How would you like to respond? Why?

    If "it depends" what does it depend on?

    The context I am thinking of is either in a public forum, or a conversational setting where someone is purporting to inform others of the truth.

    ---------

    I have, in the past, responded saying "that's ridiculous" or something equivalent to it. I realize that this is not the best response.

    Often, I ask questions to clarify what the other person was saying, so that my own conception can (hopefully) be adjusted to something more reasonable. This too seems like an inadequate response, because more often than not, I still continue to find their conception of facts ridiculous.

    I have considered letting things be, and have, let it be, at times. This feels like I am letting them continue to delude themselves and continue to misinform others. I could pick topics (global warming, the value of vaccination, co-opting scientific notions to reach ridiculous conclusions, ...), but I am sure more than a handful of the people on the forum have been frustrated by similar situations.

    I am trying to formulate a new set of better habits, which of course would mean finding out what to do in these situations.

    Thoughts?

    ----

    Edit: I made a test topic which may or may not be an interesting thread in itself:
    Transgressing the Boundaries

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #2
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Generally, I don't waste my time with crazies and folks who make insane statements. If it is something that I can easily shoot down, I will try. If they don't yield some, I look at how they are coming to their conclusions. If it is something I couldn't do anything with, I make a statement saying I am done, and almost never engage with them ever again.

    My rule is, don't waste energy on people you can't change.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
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    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Generally, I don't waste my time with crazies and folks who make insane statements. If it is something that I can easily shoot down, I will try. If they don't yield some, I look at how they are coming to their conclusions. If it is something I couldn't do anything with, I make a statement saying I am done, and almost never engage with them ever again.

    My rule is, don't waste energy on people you can't change.
    Seems like a policy that can preserve my sanity. I do worry about them going around an misinforming people leading to harm. A lot of times, these people are quite charismatic.

    I was trying to find some example of ridiculousness that wouldn't immediately create a flame war, and I thought of something. It could be a good test. I will edit my op to cross-link it once done (could be an interesting discussion in itself).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #4
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Seems like a policy that can preserve my sanity. I do worry about them going around an misinforming people leading to harm. A lot of times, these people are quite charismatic.

    I was trying to find some example of ridiculousness that wouldn't immediately create a flame war, and I thought of something. It could be a good test. I will edit my op to cross-link it once done (could be an interesting discussion in itself).
    When those people are well liked and spreading misinformation I can get into fits. In those cases I either smear their image or address it behind the scenes to cut off their ability to do so. Usually it takes little effort as they most are aware of the issues and just need a little encouraging to start putting them in their place.

    Not the most ethical thing to do, but I see it as for the greater good so it's justified.

    Of course, that only works if you are with many people.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  5. #5
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    When those people are well liked and spreading misinformation I can get into fits. In those cases I either smear their image or address it behind the scenes to cut off their ability to do so. Usually it takes little effort as they most are aware of the issues and just need a little encouraging to start putting them in their place.

    Not the most ethical thing to do, but I see it as for the greater good so it's justified.

    Of course, that only works if you are with many people.
    what about when the misinformation is from another source and they think it's legit? I would be kinder to them over someone just trolling. just trolling i have no problem fucking up their image, someone who is being sincere i'd try to educate them if that doesn't work then i just say screw it everyone can die because carrot juice isn't going to cure throat cancer.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    When those people are well liked and spreading misinformation I can get into fits. In those cases I either smear their image or address it behind the scenes to cut off their ability to do so. Usually it takes little effort as they most are aware of the issues and just need a little encouraging to start putting them in their place.

    Not the most ethical thing to do, but I see it as for the greater good so it's justified.

    Of course, that only works if you are with many people.
    I've had the impulse to do this myself. But, often (certainly not always), I like the person. I usually don't want to harm them or their image.

    Besides, my skills in directing my social clout are not well refined. If I tried something that sneaky, it is sure to backfire on me anyways.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #7
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what about when the misinformation is from another source and they think it's legit? I would be kinder to them over someone just trolling. just trolling i have no problem fucking up their image, someone who is being sincere i'd try to educate them if that doesn't work then i just say screw it everyone can die because carrot juice isn't going to cure throat cancer.
    I'd assume I have already tried to explain things and prove it wrong. I have little tollerence for it because of my mother who spreads bad sources all the time. It is not an excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I've had the impulse to do this myself. But, often (certainly not always), I like the person. I usually don't want to harm them or their image.

    Besides, my skills in directing my social clout are not well refined. If I tried something that sneaky, it is sure to backfire on me anyways.
    If I like the person 99% of the time we can come to some sort of agreement. I sort of just naturally attract and am drawn to people of like mind. I have a few friends where we diverge a bit on political things, and we both simply avoid all of it for the sake of our friendship.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  8. #8
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    I usually only intervene when (a) it affects me and/or (b) I think the person will actually be receptive. I have no problem throwing my weight around when I need to be understood or when someone's going to act dangerously.

    If someone's gonna believe what they're gonna believe, then it's not my business. If they're not going to listen to dissenting opinions, then it's not worth my time.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    If I like the person 99% of the time we can come to some sort of agreement. I sort of just naturally attract and am drawn to people of like mind. I have a few friends where we diverge a bit on political things, and we both simply avoid all of it for the sake of our friendship.
    Ah, I see.

    For whatever reason, I seem to be drawn to people who believe quite different things from myself...maybe having been brought up in an Eastern tradition in a Western nation, along with continued strong interest in the spiritual, symbolic, and to some extent, the supernatural, despite having years of scientific and technical training.

    Maybe I'm just hyper-aware of people's conscious beliefs because I was exposed to so many different belief systems at a young age. Maybe this hyper-awareness of conscious belief makes me focus on the differences when they come up.

    I'm not sure.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #10
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Ah, I see.

    For whatever reason, I seem to be drawn to people who believe quite different things from myself...maybe having been brought up in an Eastern tradition in a Western nation, along with continued strong interest in the spiritual, symbolic, and to some extent, the supernatural, despite having years of scientific and technical training.

    Maybe I'm just hyper-aware of people's conscious beliefs because I was exposed to so many different belief systems at a young age. Maybe this hyper-awareness of conscious belief makes me focus on the differences when they come up.

    I'm not sure.
    Interestingly I was exposed to a ton of different belief systems when I wad growing up and often wanted everyone to get along. The beliefs I wad raised with (which I have since left behind) had a big element of "everyone is right" so I sought to bridge gaps. Not so much anymore.

    Also, I am ENFJ. We don't really like befriending and making circles with people we don't have a lot in common with . I want common ground and harmony. I don't see the point without it. Well, I do see it, but that's not for me.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


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