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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    How do you respond? Why?

    How would you like to respond? Why?

    If "it depends" what does it depend on?

    The context I am thinking of is either in a public forum, or a conversational setting where someone is purporting to inform others of the truth.
    I mostly don't worry about it. If challenged on how I feel about something I find ridiculous (like religion), I'll just say that I'm not really into it and otherwise deflect the issue. I'm more about keeping the peace than educating people. If people are embracing untruths, I figure that reality checks and the marketplace of ideas and all that will take care of the problem over time. Humanity got along more or less okay without me before I arrived on the scene, and it will do fine without me after I'm gone again. So I don't need to waste my own time running around saving people from themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I have, in the past, responded saying "that's ridiculous" or something equivalent to it. I realize that this is not the best response.

    Often, I ask questions to clarify what the other person was saying, so that my own conception can (hopefully) be adjusted to something more reasonable. This too seems like an inadequate response, because more often than not, I still continue to find their conception of facts ridiculous.

    I have considered letting things be, and have, let it be, at times. This feels like I am letting them continue to delude themselves and continue to misinform others. I could pick topics (global warming, the value of vaccination, co-opting scientific notions to reach ridiculous conclusions, ...), but I am sure more than a handful of the people on the forum have been frustrated by similar situations.

    I am trying to formulate a new set of better habits, which of course would mean finding out what to do in these situations.

    Thoughts?
    I see a similarity between INTPs and INFPs of sorts here: The INTP wants to correct everyone who embraces logical fallacies: His Ne sees it as a challenge and his Ti wants harmony of thinking in his environment. Similarly, the INFP wants to solve the personal problems of everyone who is unhappy: His Ne sees it as a challenge and his Fi wants harmony of mood in his environment.

    I'm sure you see the ridiculousness of INFPs trying to solve everyone's problems and keep everyone happy. Likewise, as an INFP I see it as kind of ridiculous of INTPs to try to educate everyone out of their misconceptions. It's kind of like playing God and trying to rescue every fallen sparrow in the world.

    Better to think in terms of how one should invest one's limited time. Is educating fools (or trying to keep them happy) the most productive use of one's available time? I can see engaging in the occasional debate (or providing occasional emotional support) as an Ne intellectual exercise--kind of what I'm doing here. But there comes a point where it becomes increasingly unproductive (relative to other possible uses of one's limited time) for a variety of reasons.

  2. #22
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    So you're saying I'm not the ruler of Latveria?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #23
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    When a topic of contention comes up, I have two attitudes to take: understanding or convincing.

    First I try to understand, and if I disagree I try to point out the problems with their assertion. If they don't budge, then I continue to discuss to understand why they're so hung up on it. At least I end up learning about the nature of disagreements.

    The most recent case I've had of this was talking to a homeless person about his assertion that no bull riders enjoyed their jobs, they only did it because the economy forced them to. It came up in a chat after I gave him a dollar. FYI, it's a bad idea to debate with homeless people, a large amount of them are homeless because compromise disturbs them more than the want for comfort.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    How do you respond? Why? How would you like to respond? Why?
    I don't. I leave them in their state of ridiculousness. It's not my job to make the world right. I find a reason to excuse myself and leave.
    Likes Bush Did 9/11 liked this post

  5. #25
    literally your mother PocketFullOf's Avatar
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    I usually correct them in a tone similar to the one they were using when they made the error. If I know there is no point because they are stubborn or will just start an argument to avoid admitting they are wrong I will just roll my eyes and keep it to myself.


    Taking a concept to it's logical end is rarely logical or relevant to the subject at hand.
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  6. #26
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    I only feel qualified to challenge in a few subjects, because those are what I've spent significant portions of my life and power on at the expense of having a layman's understanding at best of many others. The latter isn't enough for me when it comes to helping maintain a shared body of knowledge. Shared is the key word. I have a perfectionistic sense of responsibility about things like this and can't bear to contribute something to public knowledge (by writing it or saying it aloud) when I'm not certain it's correct or if I don't have backup for it. I don't want to contribute to any spread of untruths. Not that I've never mouthed off incautiously, but it's embarrassing. I hold others to a similarly high standard and listen preferentially to those who are educated or experienced above the norm on what they're talking about.

    But this reason for holding back on all but my specialties is overly rigid, which betrays it as a justification for simple sucky confidence underneath. I just want to be right or not open my mouth at all. The reality is, debate and public critique is just what the unrefined ideas we hide need to become more solid and fit for passing on. That's totally responsible as long as you're willing to respond to evidence when it doesn't sit well with your felt desires. What I should do is make more friends who I can engage with intellectually - engage for real, not on a basis of agreement.
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