Is the alpha male more alpha than someone who laughs and looks down on him?

[TheCheeseBurgerKing]

You could be the most physically imposing man in the world, but if you are impotent, you are not an alpha male. Period.

False, the alpha male could take his women in the dark and bang them with a strap on.

 

[Kullervo]

False, the alpha male could take his women in the dark and bang them with a strap on.

If he can't pass on his genes, he isn't an alpha.

 

[TheCheeseBurgerKing]

[MENTION=21639]SilentMusings[/MENTION]
False, alpha malehood is all about perception.

 

[Mole]

The Alpha Male is is part of the hierarchy of the animal kingdom. So we have Alpha Males in a monkey troupe, and we have Alpha Males in a herd of elephants.

And although homo sapiens is part of the animal kingdom, we are different than the other animals in that we are meaning creating animals.

In fact we actually create the meaning of the words Alpha Male.

And we apply the words Alpha Male to homo sapiens out of vanity and to create a sexual frisson.

 

[Raffaella]

So lets say there is some big shot alpha male acting all big and shit, then there is someone who doesent care about the alpha male trying to be all alpha, but just finds it amusing, laughs at him(understanding it, but not caring if it hits the alpha males ego and makes him angry) and doesent take the alpha male seriously in any way(which will most likely piss off the alpha male and making him try to act bigger, which is just met with more amusement and looking down on the alpha male).

So which is the real alpha male?

This is such a social dominant question.

It depends on who everyone is drawn to. What you're describing sounds like the difference between + and - social hierarchies where +ves are less concerned with their positions and -ves dwell on their position. The guy who supposedly doesn't care seems like a -ve beta or -ve gamma because +ve alpha men are natural leaders, they don't need to prove to themselves that they're more powerful - they need to show others that they are.

An alpha male is defined by his success with women, nothing else.

Actually women are seen as a product of the +ve alpha males success not the goal, whereas -ve alpha males see women as goals.

 

[Bullet]

So lets say there is some big shot alpha male acting all big and shit, then there is someone who doesent care about the alpha male trying to be all alpha, but just finds it amusing, laughs at him(understanding it, but not caring if it hits the alpha males ego and makes him angry) and doesent take the alpha male seriously in any way(which will most likely piss off the alpha male and making him try to act bigger, which is just met with more amusement and looking down on the alpha male).

So which is the real alpha male?

Alpha Male is a useless term, partly because it means so many different things to different people. Among animals, where the term originated from, the alpha is the leader of the pack. Likewise, among humans, it's not about specific personality traits as much as having followers. The leader of a book club may have a very different personality than the leader of a death squad. Even in high school with all of its various cliques, oftentimes, leaders emerge within those individual groups. Some people might view certain cliques as more elite than others (jocks vs nerds) but that's really subjective. There is no defined social hierarchy in high school; just people who do their own thing or follow others who do. In a civilized society which elects its officials, the qualities of an effective leader are probably not the same qualities that a leader would possess in a less civilized society where mobs are violently rivaling for power. Being a leader doesn't mean that a person is necessarily a good leader either. History is rife with evil and/or incompetent leaders who led their nations to ruin.

Though certain personality traits are often associated with being alpha, such as confidence, it's not necessarily true. In many cases, the psychological need to control others or be viewed as a leader is compensating for a lack of self-contentment. Hitler is a good example of this. His messiah complex was a result of deep-seated insecurities. The man's ability to ascend from a starving artist who was impoverished, homeless and suicidal, unable to provide for his own basic needs, to becoming the leader of a vast military and political regime was the result of a carefully crafted persona. He was one of the most alpha males of the 20th century, but he hardly had a healthy self-esteem or any legitimate sense of self-worth.

 

[FDG]

As long as other people in the group consider the alpha male as a source of "instructions", then he's the alpha regardless. If other people start "siding" with the newcomer/outsider, he's going to be more alpha.

 

[FDG]

An alpha male is defined by his success with women, nothing else.

Depends on society's values.

 

[Kullervo]

Actually women are seen as a product of the +ve alpha males success not the goal, whereas -ve alpha males see women as goals.

No. If a man does not or cannot pass on his genes to the next generation, he has failed his fundamental purpose in existing.

An alpha male is simply a man who is in a state where he can select from a pool of women (i.e. potential mates) at will. In other words, the women must compete for the alpha.

 

[Nicodemus]

Discussing the definition of words while believing to discuss a complex theoretical question: Ti.

The alpha male is the alpha male and 'the real alpha male'; otherwise he would not be 'the alpha male'. There are no alpha males in human societies, just men with big egos and small penises.

 

[Mole]

A good way to think about it would be this.

Were all the laws of civil society to evaporate, they would probably be running the show among their peers.

Yes, this is why we invented liberal democracy: to limit power and maximise freedom and equality.

And we limit power because we intuitively maximise power and limit freedom and equality.

So liberal democracy is exquisitely counter-intuitive.

And the one with the maximum power is the alpha male, or indeed, the alpha female.
So the mark of civilization is the lack of alphas.

We only have to look at the dictatorships of Africa, Asia, South America, and Russia to see the alpha at the top.
And we only have to look at the liberal democracies to see the lack of alphas at the top.

 

[Raffaella]

No. If a man does not or cannot pass on his genes to the next generation, he has failed his fundamental purpose in existing.

An alpha male is simply a man who is in a state where he can select from a pool of women (i.e. potential mates) at will. In other words, the women must compete for the alpha.

That's not what I'm saying, though. +ve alpha men don't allow the pursuit of women to dictate their lives, their main goal is dominance and excellence in whatever field society highly values. Women do compete for the alpha and he would have multiple partners but not because he sought to make himself the most attractive, he's the most desirable because of his success.

Seeking multiple partners and wealth because they think it'll lead to a higher social standing and therefore success is the goal of -ve alphas. +ve alpha men are not defined by their success with women, they're defined by their success in general.

 

[EJCC]

I agree with [MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION] re: how an alpha is defined. (I'd apply that definition to alpha males AND to alpha females.)

If "the group" is essentially commanded, willingly, by a person, then that person is the alpha. If the group isn't with the person, then (s)he isn't the alpha anymore. Meaning, if one person is unafraid of them and laughs at them, but they are the only one that does so, then they are of no threat to the alpha's status or authority. They're only a threat if people listen to them and start to follow them instead of the alpha.

 

[Starry]

No. If a man does not or cannot pass on his genes to the next generation, he has failed his fundamental purpose in existing.

An alpha male is simply a man who is in a state where he can select from a pool of women (i.e. potential mates) at will. In other words, the women must compete for the alpha.

Not naming names or anything... but someone in this thread is confusing "fitness" with the concept of "alpha." "Alpha" has absolutely nothing to do with how many bitchy feminists you force yourself on.

 

[Kullervo]

Not naming names or anything... but someone in this thread is confusing "fitness" with the concept of "alpha." "Alpha" has absolutely nothing to do with how many bitchy feminists you force yourself on.

Don't make me horny, baby.

 

[Kullervo]

That's not what I'm saying, though. +ve alpha men don't allow the pursuit of women to dictate their lives, their main goal is dominance and excellence in whatever field society highly values. Women do compete for the alpha and he would have multiple partners but not because he sought to make himself the most attractive, he's the most desirable because of his success.

Seeking multiple partners and wealth because they think it'll lead to a higher social standing and therefore success is the goal of -ve alphas. +ve alpha men are not defined by their success with women, they're defined by their success in general.

No alpha seeks out women. They seek him.

 

[Jonny]

So lets say there is some big shot alpha male acting all big and shit, then there is someone who doesent care about the alpha male trying to be all alpha, but just finds it amusing, laughs at him(understanding it, but not caring if it hits the alpha males ego and makes him angry) and doesent take the alpha male seriously in any way(which will most likely piss off the alpha male and making him try to act bigger, which is just met with more amusement and looking down on the alpha male).

So which is the real alpha male?

Let me preface this by saying that I don't care much about these sorts of definitions; this is a purely intellectual pursuit.

I'm not sure if your hypothetical alpha male is acting alpha as I understand the term. From the little I've read on the stereotypes, beta males will often attempt to act tough in order to be perceived as tough, but alpha males tend to care less about the perceptions/opinions of others (or won't obsess about them). So, if some guy is trying to act tough, and you ignore or laugh at him, and that makes him mad, then he is, by definition, not an alpha male.

 

[Kullervo]

Seriously? All you people think makes someone alpha is how much power they have in society?

It isn't just their current power, but their potential to have influence in the future, that makes them alpha. It's for this reason that I brought potency/sexual prowess into the picture. If a male can't reproduce then his ability to influence society after his death becomes somewhat more limited. The degree of status he needs to have increases dramatically.

 

[EJCC]

Seriously? All you people think makes someone alpha is how much power they have in society?

It isn't just their current power, but their potential to have influence in the future, that makes them alpha. It's for this reason that I brought potency/sexual prowess into the picture. If a male can't reproduce then his ability to influence society after his death becomes somewhat more limited. The degree of status he needs to have increases dramatically.

Alpha (ethology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously not the perfect definition, but fairly representative of general consensus.

 

[Nicodemus]

No alpha seeks out women. They seek him.

Elliot Rodger thought so too. Look where it got him.