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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    A good way to think about it would be this.

    Were all the laws of civil society to evaporate, they would probably be running the show among their peers.
    Yes, this is why we invented liberal democracy: to limit power and maximise freedom and equality.

    And we limit power because we intuitively maximise power and limit freedom and equality.

    So liberal democracy is exquisitely counter-intuitive.

    And the one with the maximum power is the alpha male, or indeed, the alpha female.
    So the mark of civilization is the lack of alphas.

    We only have to look at the dictatorships of Africa, Asia, South America, and Russia to see the alpha at the top.
    And we only have to look at the liberal democracies to see the lack of alphas at the top.

  2. #32
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    No. If a man does not or cannot pass on his genes to the next generation, he has failed his fundamental purpose in existing.

    An alpha male is simply a man who is in a state where he can select from a pool of women (i.e. potential mates) at will. In other words, the women must compete for the alpha.

    That's not what I'm saying, though. +ve alpha men don't allow the pursuit of women to dictate their lives, their main goal is dominance and excellence in whatever field society highly values. Women do compete for the alpha and he would have multiple partners but not because he sought to make himself the most attractive, he's the most desirable because of his success.

    Seeking multiple partners and wealth because they think it'll lead to a higher social standing and therefore success is the goal of -ve alphas. +ve alpha men are not defined by their success with women, they're defined by their success in general.
    Night is another candle

  3. #33
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I agree with @DiscoBiscuit re: how an alpha is defined. (I'd apply that definition to alpha males AND to alpha females.)

    If "the group" is essentially commanded, willingly, by a person, then that person is the alpha. If the group isn't with the person, then (s)he isn't the alpha anymore. Meaning, if one person is unafraid of them and laughs at them, but they are the only one that does so, then they are of no threat to the alpha's status or authority. They're only a threat if people listen to them and start to follow them instead of the alpha.
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  4. #34
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    No. If a man does not or cannot pass on his genes to the next generation, he has failed his fundamental purpose in existing.

    An alpha male is simply a man who is in a state where he can select from a pool of women (i.e. potential mates) at will. In other words, the women must compete for the alpha.
    Not naming names or anything... but someone in this thread is confusing "fitness" with the concept of "alpha." "Alpha" has absolutely nothing to do with how many bitchy feminists you force yourself on.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Not naming names or anything... but someone in this thread is confusing "fitness" with the concept of "alpha." "Alpha" has absolutely nothing to do with how many bitchy feminists you force yourself on.
    Don't make me horny, baby.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    That's not what I'm saying, though. +ve alpha men don't allow the pursuit of women to dictate their lives, their main goal is dominance and excellence in whatever field society highly values. Women do compete for the alpha and he would have multiple partners but not because he sought to make himself the most attractive, he's the most desirable because of his success.

    Seeking multiple partners and wealth because they think it'll lead to a higher social standing and therefore success is the goal of -ve alphas. +ve alpha men are not defined by their success with women, they're defined by their success in general.
    No alpha seeks out women. They seek him.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    So lets say there is some big shot alpha male acting all big and shit, then there is someone who doesent care about the alpha male trying to be all alpha, but just finds it amusing, laughs at him(understanding it, but not caring if it hits the alpha males ego and makes him angry) and doesent take the alpha male seriously in any way(which will most likely piss off the alpha male and making him try to act bigger, which is just met with more amusement and looking down on the alpha male).

    So which is the real alpha male?
    Let me preface this by saying that I don't care much about these sorts of definitions; this is a purely intellectual pursuit.

    I'm not sure if your hypothetical alpha male is acting alpha as I understand the term. From the little I've read on the stereotypes, beta males will often attempt to act tough in order to be perceived as tough, but alpha males tend to care less about the perceptions/opinions of others (or won't obsess about them). So, if some guy is trying to act tough, and you ignore or laugh at him, and that makes him mad, then he is, by definition, not an alpha male.
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  8. #38
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    Seriously? All you people think makes someone alpha is how much power they have in society?

    It isn't just their current power, but their potential to have influence in the future, that makes them alpha. It's for this reason that I brought potency/sexual prowess into the picture. If a male can't reproduce then his ability to influence society after his death becomes somewhat more limited. The degree of status he needs to have increases dramatically.

  9. #39
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Seriously? All you people think makes someone alpha is how much power they have in society?

    It isn't just their current power, but their potential to have influence in the future, that makes them alpha. It's for this reason that I brought potency/sexual prowess into the picture. If a male can't reproduce then his ability to influence society after his death becomes somewhat more limited. The degree of status he needs to have increases dramatically.
    Alpha (ethology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Obviously not the perfect definition, but fairly representative of general consensus.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    No alpha seeks out women. They seek him.
    Elliot Rodger thought so too. Look where it got him.

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