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  1. #101
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Yes.

    I should clarify: an alpha is not defined by how many sexual partners he/she has. They are defined by their ability to choose them, where and when they want to. Another proviso is fertility; if you can't pass on your genes you cannot be an alpha. Perpetrating your legacy, y'know

    What makes a woman an alpha is a bit different than what makes a man one, because the traits most highly valued in females are not the same.
    Do you think the status of alpha is important?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #102
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Do you think the status of alpha is important?
    I wanna play!

    Depends on what your goals are, and I still don't feel like the definition has been nailed down, nor do I think it will be. Closer though. Interesting topic.

    I mean, part of being "Alpha" IS status. So, in that regard, absofreakin' lutley.

    If we're using the most positive definition (not 'roided out frat boy) say...this definition:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    An Alpha is the leader of the pack.

    There is no Alpha without the pack.

    And there is no pack without the pack mentality.

    So it is social psychology that determines an Alpha.
    Which is a pretty damn good one, IMO, if you are a beta wolf getting just the scraps, you're going to continue to be weak and beta. That's your status, malnourished, mostly shunned, but we let you hang out cuz we could use the numbers in our pack, and you're too weak and a weenie to go off on your own.

    Like mole said, there IS no Alpha if you're by yourself or have zero friends to call up for whatever. But you're also not Beta. You're a lone wolf.


    "Some wolves will simply remain lone wolves; as such, these lone wolves may be stronger, more aggressive and far more dangerous than the average wolf that is a member of a pack. However, lone wolves have difficulty hunting, as wolves’ favorite prey, large ungulates, are nearly impossible for a single wolf to bring down alone. Instead, lone wolves will generally hunt smaller animals and scavenge carrion.[1]"

    ""Dispersers" are wolves who leave a pack; these lone wolves will sometimes find a mate and start a new pack."

    So those two facts were pretty interesting to me.

    Humans operate very similar. Hell, you'll get people on this forum (myself included) that feel like they have poor status and just need to leave and start over.

    And sometimes, that IS the best solution.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Stupid question.
    That's a stupid response. Answer the question.

  4. #104
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    Alpha only exists in a social context. The pack following the alpha makes the alpha an alpha.

    The only thing that would diminish alphaness is if the person making fun of them is siphoning off the alphas followers.

    Alphaness doesn't revolve around being a dick, or working out or being the best looking guy in the room. It's about the affect one has on other people.

    There are nice alphas and dick alphas, just like there are nice and shitty versions of every kind of person.
    Likes Thalassa liked this post

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    So lets say there is some big shot alpha male acting all big and shit, then there is someone who doesent care about the alpha male trying to be all alpha, but just finds it amusing, laughs at him(understanding it, but not caring if it hits the alpha males ego and makes him angry) and doesent take the alpha male seriously in any way(which will most likely piss off the alpha male and making him try to act bigger, which is just met with more amusement and looking down on the alpha male).

    So which is the real alpha male?
    I am. Because I was always that kid who laughed at and made fun of the alpha males in my school.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Kind of.

    If I hadn't been around long enough, I'd think gay men were too effeminate and "push overs."

    But I've since met plenty of badass Alpha gay dudes. Couple blackbelts, and one Marine, stand out right now.
    My point is that one of our fundamental purposes in existing is to procreate. How physically strong and/or intelligent a man may be, if he is incapable of perpetrating a legacy in some way I fail to see how he can be considered alpha.

    We are talking about peas and apples here.



    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    2 Alphas,

    Primal Alpha + Civilized, High Social Status Alpha = Uber Alpha.


    Pa-lenty of real life and fictionals to choose from. But for now, let's say Batman and James Bond.

    More or less, Batman uses violence only when necessary and rarely kills (if we're talking about the traditional character). All the goons he fights are examples of pure primal alpha, which in the grand scheme, is pretty pathetic. Bruce Wayne is super rich, suave, highly intelligent and charming (come to think of it, his superpower really is just being super rich, private schooling and whatnot).

    James Bond, again, kills when he has to, but he has to a lot. And he'll get the job done anyway he can. Shoot his way out, talk his way out, MAcGyver some shit. But he knows how to turn his inner ape off.

    Basically in touch with both your inner animal and your evolving, higher self.
    These are pretty extreme examples that don't correspond to even 0.1% of men in the real world. From my observations, outside movies men tend to be either very physically or mentally gifted, but not both. In other words, it's a bit of a trade off and most of us are somewhere nearer the average phenotype. Almost all my role models would've been nailed in a pub brawl, but we still know who they are long after their death. So in the end, who is more alpha?

    In reality, I think the division of men into alpha and beta is a lot more rooted in sexual selection than what you've suggested, and what qualities make you alpha or beta just depend on what women want (and vice versa for female alphas and betas). Some obvious physical needs aside, this can vary quite a bit between ages and cultures.

    I hope my position is making more sense now.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    That's a stupid response. Answer the question.
    The people who are stupid are those who are ask questions they already know the answer to.

    Re-read my previous comments. I am not wasting time spoonfeeding adults.

  8. #108
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Query: Are there any gay alphas?
    Gay alpha spotted at 6 seconds in:

    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Do you think the status of alpha is important?
    It depends on whether status matters to the other sex.

    From what I've noticed, at my age money and even social status aren't nearly as important as social skills. I am sure this will change as we grow older.

  10. #110
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    These are pretty extreme examples that don't correspond to even 0.1% of men in the real world. From my observations, outside movies men tend to be either very physically or mentally gifted, but not both. In other words, it's a bit of a trade off and most of us are somewhere nearer the average phenotype. Almost all my role models would've been nailed in a pub brawl, but we still know who they are long after their death. So in the end, who is more alpha?

    In reality, I think the division of men into alpha and beta is a lot more rooted in sexual selection than what you've suggested, and what qualities make you alpha or beta just depend on what women want (and vice versa for female alphas and betas). Some obvious physical needs aside, this can vary quite a bit between ages and cultures.

    I hope my position is making more sense now.
    If an argument can't hold up to extreme examples, then it's weak, that's why I used comic book characters BUT here's two real, crazy ass Ukrainian brothers. Both hold boxing heavyweight titles, both have PHDs. I'll spoiler the factoids, but no matter what, pretty interesting:


    Wladimir Klitschko Hayden Panettiere is pregnant with his kid







    Vitali Klitschko-Dr. Ironfist


    Being "Alpha" or "Beta" has a lot of factors. If you're white AND American but not good with the ladies, go to Asia. BOOM insta-Alpha. Trust me. If we're going by your definition.

    I'm not sure who brought it up, but I feel like someone thinks laughing at some large guy behind his back at a club is considered "Alpha." Nope.

    Anyway, I think I've said my peace. Interesting topic though.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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