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  1. #51
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    the very fundamental law that most if not all religions try to abide by. Love.
    In most arguments with the religious they bring out their trump card called love.

    Love for the religious is part of their propaganda game. It is meant to win the game and silence the sceptics.

    And love is an effective propaganda move because the religious believe it is answerable.

    So don't you dare answer back.

  2. #52
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    You know, this shouldn't be a difficult riddle to solve: Are there any situations in which a religious person Believing in a god which rewards good actions for the benefits of others in the afterlife can act for the benefit of others without believing they would benefit themselves in their own afterlife in the process?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    You know, this shouldn't be a difficult riddle to solve: Are there any situations in which a religious person Believing in a god which rewards good actions for the benefits of others in the afterlife can act for the benefit of others without believing they would benefit themselves in their own afterlife in the process?
    Well, no. The belief of reward is sufficient to be at least a subconscious factor. The action could even be 99% true selfless altruism, but the knowledge of adding something to the positive karma pile would still get in there.

    Why are you asking?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Do religious people - particularly belonging to religions of moral dogma - genuinely care about others well being? Or are they simply acting out of their own (Imagined) self interest (Scoring points for their afterlife game)? How can you know? How can they? Are there any situations in which acting for the benefit of others would not be in their own spiritual interest?

    Disclaimer: I don't mean simply in action, but in terms of intent.
    Can non religious people be genuinely decent?

    The thread premise on it face assumes the religious are less likely to be decent.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Well, no. The belief of reward is sufficient to be at least a subconscious factor. The action could even be 99% true selfless altruism, but the knowledge of adding something to the positive karma pile would still get in there.

    Why are you asking?
    Because it's interesting:
    On the surface, my gut reaction would normally be to agree with everyone here: Ofcourse they can be.
    But when you look at the core mechanic, the actual opportunity to do so is inherently unavailable, and as such, unknowable.
    If the we assume that they can be altruistic, as most people here seem to do, then the interesting question becomes how.

  6. #56
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    What an odd question. OF COURSE THEY CAN BE.

    And really, who gives a shit if they're trying to score Karma or Jesus points. As long as people are getting water and food.

    And I'm no fan of religion, and have serious personal beefs with Christianity. But I'm not sure there's a religion that helps out more. Missionaries and TONS of money go into helping people. Helping people like, not die.

    HOWEVER it's a bit scheming to me, because when someone brings near-death, starving people in Africa sandwiches and shelter, of COURSE they're going to be indoctrinated, and probably very willing. "Jesus is God? You have sandwich? Ok Jesus is God."

    But I think having running water and a place to wash your hands other than the same place where you shit is probably a fair trade.





    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  7. #57
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Are there any situations in which a religious person Believing in a god which rewards good actions for the benefits of others in the afterlife can act for the benefit of others without believing they would benefit themselves in their own afterlife in the process?
    What the hell did you just say.

    If they believe in a god that rewards good actions, why would that NOT believe in a god that rewards good actions.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    You know, this shouldn't be a difficult riddle to solve: Are there any situations in which a religious person Believing in a god which rewards good actions for the benefits of others in the afterlife can act for the benefit of others without believing they would benefit themselves in their own afterlife in the process?
    A truly alruistic person is someone who doesn't know they're altruistic.

    let not your left hand know what your right hand does - John 6:3

  9. #59
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Do religious people - particularly belonging to religions of moral dogma - genuinely care about others well being? Or are they simply acting out of their own (Imagined) self interest (Scoring points for their afterlife game)? How can you know? How can they? Are there any situations in which acting for the benefit of others would not be in their own spiritual interest?

    Disclaimer: I don't mean simply in action, but in terms of intent.
    I know in the JW mind control cult, you aren't allowed to show kindness to the gays, members of other religions, or those who question SUPREME LEADER's place as the sole mouthpiece of God. You also must treat women as naturally inferior to men.

    These are values I once held, but no longer do. I am free from religion and a much better person for it. Not all religion is bad, however. I frequently flirt with the idea of giving Unitarian Universalism a try, since they won't force me to believe in things I find irrational, but will still maybe help me attain a sense of the "spiritual."

    I do not believe in the supernatural or magic.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

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  10. #60
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    In most arguments with the religious they bring out their trump card called love.

    Love for the religious is part of their propaganda game. It is meant to win the game and silence the sceptics.

    And love is an effective propaganda move because the religious believe it is answerable.

    So don't you dare answer back.
    Good post.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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