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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    The Transcendental Aesthetic, that section of the Critique of Pure Reason which begins the argument in its entirety, does not accomplish any metaphysical duties. All it accomplishes is to make possible a new methodology, that of Critique, or the Transcendental Method. The really terrible philosophers (e.g., most Objectivists) believe that the Aesthetic attempts to establish a metaphysical dichotomy between the knowable world and the unknowable world. It is as if to say, all our minds have is an illusion created by the senses, the real world is unknowable.

    If that were Kant's goal, then it would be quite incredible for him to establish that much theory in only a very small part of a gigantic work of philosophy - and there would really be no reason to go on. And anyway, it would hardly be an original idea.

    The distinction Kant makes in the Aesthetic drives not toward some unoriginal metaphysics utilizing obscure terminology, but toward an original methodology. This is a necessary move for Kant to make, as it is this methodology which Kant applied for the rest of his philosophical career.
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  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Kant's argument in the Transcendental Analytic really begins in the Transcendental Aesthetic (the latter word not to be confused with art, it's more a reference to the sensory apparatus). In the Aesthetic, Kant proves that human senses bring us appearances, not to be confused with illusions as do some philosophers who were way out of their league here (e.g., Ayn Rand and her little lap dog Leonard Peikoff). Kant is not referring to any particular things as appearances (chairs, subway cars, airplanes, etc.), but only to appearances in general, also defined as things-in-general as they appear to our senses. Inept philosophers are sometimes thrown by such Kantian terminology as "mere appearances," as if this indicates that Kant was a Subjectivist philosopher, but that is only Kant's little joke on subjectivists such as Henri Bergson.

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    Your post isn't topical, but at least it's better than the LOL which would have been the threads only post besides mine.
    I'm sort of aware of that. I'd love to be able to discuss this with you, but I haven't read Kant yet. I suppose the copyright is probably expired, so I'm sure finding texts shouldn't be too hard.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I'm sort of aware of that. I'd love to be able to discuss this with you, but I haven't read Kant yet. I suppose the copyright is probably expired, so I'm sure finding texts shouldn't be too hard.
    Copyrights expire 50 years after the death of the author, in the US.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Copyrights expire 50 years after the death of the author, in the US.
    It was a joke.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Robert Wolff (the author of Kant's Theory of Mental Activity) prefers to use the historical method in his elucidation of Kantian philosophy. And rightly so. The Transcendental Aesthetic concerns an old argument between Newtonians and Leibnizians regarding the nature of space and time. Leibniz's theory was that space and all objects in it consist of monads - zero-dimensional "points" created by God. sense-perception is made possible by "pre-established harmony." This was the metaphysical side of the debate. Newton believed in space and time as God's Sensorium - an Absolute and independent (of objects) space and time. Newton was not concerned with the problem of sense-perception, but only with deriving a theory of space and time that made viable his theories on motion.

    Kant recognized that neither of these positions on the nature of space and time were tenable. It's not as if Kant was the first to recognize this, as the strengths and weaknesses in both theories were well-known at the time Leibniz and Clarke (who was in the Newtonian camp) corresponded on the issue.

    Out of this debate came Kant's argument regarding incongruent counterparts, which utilizes the premise of a mirror universe containing a left-handed counterpart to a right-handed glove in our universe. (This premise was originally supported via the image of a glove in a mirror.) Kant destroyed both the relationism of Leibniz and the absolutism of Newton/Clarke.

    philosophy of physics :: Kant on incongruent counterparts -- Encyclopedia Britannica
    Last edited by Mal12345; 07-06-2014 at 02:55 PM.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #16
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    @Nocapszy

    Very recently on this forum I have been ordered to leave (I assume) Typology Central based on a thread I created devoted to correcting incorrect Facebook memes. The thread was properly posted to the Fluff forum, so there is literally no rule being broken or any kind of forum faux pas being committed. And I happen to find the topic personally amusing.

    But since that harmless fluff thread is somehow offense to apparently intellectually sensitive, highly intelligent, and extremely sensible individuals here, I decided to bump up the difficulty in the conversation.

    I wish to discuss - seriously, without fluff or insults - the following statement from Robert Wolff, author of Kant's Theory of Mental Activity (1963) [...]
    Too serious, get out

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Too serious, get out
    Define "serious" in this context.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    In Thoughts on the True Estimation of Living Forces (1747), Kant argues against Leibniz's monad theory of pre-established harmony which makes sense-perception possible, that substances must really be extended and interact - whereas Leibniz's monads on the other hand are 0-dimensional (thus unextended) and do not interact. If some monadic substance really does exist, then Kant argues that space does not exist.

    For those of you who can't read between the lines, Leibniz's view thus renders our notions of space illusory. And even if God fortunately arranged it for us such that what we see is really what is out there (pre-established harmony), the attempt would be fruitless as there would be literally nothing out there to exist for us to sense.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Ibid, pp 9-10 -
    At the end of this period Kant published an essay in which he
    adopted the Newtonian position, and argued against-the relational
    theory of space. The piece, entitled On the First Ground of the
    Distinction of Regions,in Space, makes devastating use of an argument
    which first appeared, unappreciated, in the Leibniz-Clarke
    correspondence. As quoted above, Leibniz had argued that if space
    were absolute, then mirror images would be distinguishable. But,
    he insists, they are perfect counterparts and therefore must be
    presumed to be literally identical. In response, Clarke merely asserted
    God's ability to choose between indistinguishable alternatives.

    God to the rescue!

    Once upon a time I read the Clarke-Leibniz correspondence, and to be truthful, it sounded like two pedantic teenagers having a debate. And whenever someone in the debate is cornered, he simply calls on God's ordinance.

    Wolff goes on to explain the incongruent counterparts argument mentioned in a post above:

    Kant, however, took up this argument and made a simple observation
    which decisively refuted Leibniz. Consider a pair of
    human hands, he suggested. They are perfect counterparts of one
    another, the relations of their parts completely parallel. And yet
    no twisting or turning can ever transform the left into the right.
    They are incongruous, like matching triangles in a two-dimensional
    surface, spherical triangles in three-dimensions, left-and-right-
    hand spirals, or even, as Kant points out, left-and-right-hand
    snail shells. From the incongruity of counterparts, it follows that
    the creation of a left hand would be, for God, a different act from
    the creation of a right hand. Although their spatial relations are
    identical, the two hands are spatially different, and consequently
    space cannot be simply the relations of parts of the universe to
    each other.

    Thus Leibnizian relationism bites the dust. And so Kant - temporarily - adopted Newtonian Absolute Space.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "From the incongruity of counterparts, it follows that
    the creation of a left hand would be, for God, a different act from
    the creation of a right hand."


    This line from the quote above refers back to Leibniz's response to Clarke, stating that despite the fact that monadic theory makes necessary sense-perception impossible, God's will sets things right again. With Kant's critique above, it is no longer necessary to appeal to God's will. Because in God's view according to Leibniz, a monad is a monad is a monad. Thus a right hand in our sense-perception is relationally identical to its counterpart left hand, mathematically speaking. In reality, however, God has allegedly granted us the ability to distinguish the two.

    Kant, on the other hand, proves that (given God as the Creator of right and left hands) God did not in fact create left and right hands to be mathematical identities. This proof turned Kant away from the mathematical and toward the metaphysical.

    In the long run, however, Kant ditched both types of theory in favor of his own transcendental view.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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