User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 58

Thread: Human rights

  1. #1
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default Human rights

    Do they exist, and if so what are they?

    I have always been uncomfortable with the idea that people are entitled to anything, both on a personal and ideological level. But there are a few things which I think help a society be stable and prosperous. So here are my musings on the subject:

    1. Equality under the law between men, women and children who are members of the nation; also related to this,
    2. People should have the right to a fair trial (I prefer the civil to the common law legal system, however).
    3. A right to privacy and freedom from unwarranted government interference/spying.
    4. Freedom to own property and defend it from others, and related to this,
    5. A right to own firearms.
    6. The right to work in reasonable conditions, where you choose to do so domestically.
    7. National identity, sovereignty, self determination are inviolable and must be respected.


    Things that I do not consider to be rights:
    Voting - this should be a privilege granted to those who demonstrate sufficient understanding
    Universal education, a set standard of living, welfare, etc...all inventions of the nanny state
    Marriage rights, for obvious reasons
    Asylum - this should be decided on a case by case basis.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Sounds more like civil rights.

  3. #3
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Things that I do not consider to be rights: Voting.
    The totalitarians of the Left and Right and the Islamists are against liberal democracy.

    So the totalitarians attack voting in order delegitimise liberal democracy.

    Thank God the right to vote is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Constitution of Australia, and as well, voting is compulsory in Australia so we know what the people want.

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Dont forget the big five that every living organism needs to live:

    http://www.mtlakes.org/staff/~wallac...liferev.08.pdf
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #5
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    7. National identity, sovereignty, self determination are inviolable and must be respected.
    Are you talking about existing nationalities only, or are you suggesting that we should make this into an international right for any region that wants to gain sovereignty and defect from it's existing political entity? The first is boring, so for the sake of conversation I will just assume you mean the later.

    What will be the factors that should be considered? What constitutes proof of a desire to defect? Local leaders who wish too do so? A local majority of people who would vote for it? How would boarder disputes with the existing entity should be managed? If Manchester wants to become a city state, and Britain is not fond of the idea, how should the UN react to allow it to do so peacefully?

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Dont forget the big five that every living organism needs to live:

    http://www.mtlakes.org/staff/~wallac...liferev.08.pdf
    I don't believe in a right to life.

  7. #7
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Are you talking about existing nationalities only, or are you suggesting that we should make this into an international right for any region that wants to gain sovereignty and defect from it's existing political entity? The first is boring, so for the sake of conversation I will just assume you mean the later.
    Nationality is based on ethnicity, so yes, if an ethnic minority with historical connections to the area they live in wishes to secede I don't see why this should be blocked. As allowing an ethnic group political control of the land they have historical connection to logically prohibits mass immigration like we have today, it doesn't surprise me that there is so much opposition to the idea being applied in Western countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    What will be the factors that should be considered? What constitutes proof of a desire to defect? Local leaders who wish too do so? A local majority of people who would vote for it? How would boarder disputes with the existing entity should be managed? If Manchester wants to become a city state, and Britain is not fond of the idea, how should the UN react to allow it to do so peacefully?
    Manchester wouldn't qualify under the criteria I mentioned as it is an English city. As for what qualifies, any group with enough determination and power to take control and form an independent state. I am cynical about whether referenda can solve political issues in a satisfactory way, the idea of 51% of the population being able to override 49% regardless of anything - democracy - has never appealed to me.

    I am very uncomfortable with permanent international political organizations, the UN included. In a situation of conflict, neighbouring countries should set up a temporary board to help stabilise the process. It is not the job of a distant power to dictate borders, Britain did a terrible job at that earlier in the century and I would have hoped (maybe naively) that this would be a lesson.

  8. #8
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Nationality is based on ethnicity, so yes, if an ethnic minority with historical connections to the area they live in wishes to secede, then this should not be opposed (eg Scottish, Basque people).



    Manchester wouldn't qualify under the criteria I mentioned as it is an English city. As for what qualifies, any group with enough determination and power to take control and form an independent state. I am cynical about whether referenda can solve political issues in a satisfactory way, the idea of 51% of the population being able to override 49% regardless of anything - democracy - has never appealed to me.

    I am very uncomfortable with permanent international political organizations, the UN included. In a situation of conflict, neighbouring countries should set up a temporary board to help stabilise the process. It is not the job of a distant power to dictate borders, Britain did a terrible job at that earlier in the century and I would have hoped (maybe naively) that this would be a lesson.
    So you didn't mean a right arbitrated or given by anyone, just a general moral right to rebel and take over your local region? Essentially no impact whatsoever other then you considering it moral...

    For a moment it looked like you were onto something interesting. This turned boring fast

  9. #9
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    So you didn't mean a right arbitrated or given by anyone, just a general moral right to rebel and take over your local region? Essentially no impact whatsoever other then you considering it moral...

    For a moment it looked like you were onto something interesting. This turned boring fast
    People rarely vote their way into secession, it requires force to break out. I am just being pragmatic, something that seems to go over the head of many on here.

    I am pretty sure where this thread is going to go now so will retire unless/until I am proven wrong.

  10. #10
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I don't believe in a right to life.
    That is sad.

    Compared to those five, the ones you posted in the OP seem trivial to me - and the last one downright tyrannical. A state who demands respect but provides none back to its citizens, nor cares about their most basic needs? I'll pass.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

Similar Threads

  1. Should access to the internet be a human right?
    By EcK in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-28-2012, 02:03 PM
  2. Is Internet Access A Human Right?
    By iwakar in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-25-2012, 10:31 PM
  3. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
    By Kalach in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-17-2009, 10:06 PM
  4. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-11-2008, 06:27 AM
  5. UN rejects water as human right
    By heart in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 06-10-2008, 01:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO