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  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    You like to talk about what it's like in practice. Well, tens of millions of people settling somewhere in a matter of decades is an invasion IRL. It doesn't matter how they got there or why the are there, the effect is what should matter to you.

    I don't take logical consistency for granted anymore though.

    If nobody is entitled to anything just for existing, then you've just created another argument for opposing immigration.
    Most people have far more than what they are strictly entitled to. Immigration is no exception. What defines an invasion is imposition from the outside. The U.S. is often characterized as a nation of immigrants, but only the first of these migrations could be considered an invasion. If we want to roll things back that far to correct the "error", the only people left here will be the Native Americans. One of our largest minorities - blacks - didn't even want to come here at all. Our ancestors, themselves immigrants, dragged them here as slaves. How do you propose we untangle all of that in the here-and-now?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Most people have far more than what they are strictly entitled to. Immigration is no exception. What defines an invasion is imposition from the outside. The U.S. is often characterized as a nation of immigrants, but only the first of these migrations could be considered an invasion. If we want to roll things back that far to correct the "error", the only people left here will be the Native Americans. One of our largest minorities - blacks - didn't even want to come here at all. Our ancestors, themselves immigrants, dragged them here as slaves. How do you propose we untangle all of that in the here-and-now?
    I don't suggest living in the past, because many aspects of former societies are not worth emulating, whereas some advances have been positive. Instead, I suggest simply learning from history, to help create a society that is more stable and prosperous. It is wrong to assume that change is good - an idea, or a physical invention, isn't necessarily better because it is newer. Restricting immigration instead of just allowing it to continue is a lesson we can take from history - mass immigration is strongly correlated with disorder and societal collapse, and I see signs that the pattern is repeating itself yet again.

    Disputes rooted in the distant past are impossible to settle, if only because they are so numerous and complex. Every group has an axe to grind. So, I propose doing nothing.

    This doesn't mean one should be so passive in regards to the future, which unlike the past, we have the ability to shape.

  3. #53
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I don't suggest living in the past, because many aspects of former societies are not worth emulating, whereas some advances have been positive. Instead, I suggest simply learning from history, to help create a society that is more stable and prosperous. It is wrong to assume that change is good - an idea, or a physical invention, isn't necessarily better because it is newer. Restricting immigration instead of just allowing it to continue is a lesson we can take from history - mass immigration is strongly correlated with disorder and societal collapse, and I see signs that the pattern is repeating itself yet again.

    Disputes rooted in the distant past are impossible to settle, if only because they are so numerous and complex. Every group has an axe to grind. So, I propose doing nothing.

    This doesn't mean one should be so passive in regards to the future, which unlike the past, we have the ability to shape.
    We have the ability, indeed the necessity, to shape the past also, as it appears to its present students. By this I mean we must develop the clearest and most accurate view of its events as possible. History is written by the victors, after all, which can result in some seriously skewed interpretations and misrepresentations.

    As you point out, however, this is all done with a focus on shaping the future. You are wise to recognize the futility of attempting to roll back the clock on human migration. And just as it is wrong to assume change is necessarily good, it is wrong to assume tradition is necessarily good, for to do so would further assume: (1) our ancestors were infallible, and (2) the world is stagnant. As I have written elsewhere, we need to retain the best of the past, modified for present needs, and augmented by new ideas that have a good chance of improving the world. There will always be an element of risk in this since a new idea is by definition untried, but the risk is justified by the potential for reward.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We have the ability, indeed the necessity, to shape the past also, as it appears to its present students. By this I mean we must develop the clearest and most accurate view of its events as possible. History is written by the victors, after all, which can result in some seriously skewed interpretations and misrepresentations.
    This "desire" has become saturated with politics, and left wing academics often question history just because it doesn't reflect their ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As you point out, however, this is all done with a focus on shaping the future. You are wise to recognize the futility of attempting to roll back the clock on human migration. And just as it is wrong to assume change is necessarily good, it is wrong to assume tradition is necessarily good, for to do so would further assume: (1) our ancestors were infallible, and (2) the world is stagnant. As I have written elsewhere, we need to retain the best of the past, modified for present needs, and augmented by new ideas that have a good chance of improving the world. There will always be an element of risk in this since a new idea is by definition untried, but the risk is justified by the potential for reward.
    You are deliberately misinterpreting what I've said.

    What I meant was that everyone paying reparations to each other doesn't address the root cause of the problem. Current demographics can and should be reverted back to how they were in the past if doing this would increase stability and order, and prevent conflict in the future.

    I have never assumed that tradition is good for the sake of it, only that it is stupid to reject ideas just because they are older. While the world is not entirely stagnant, human nature does not change. Failing to take this into account leads to deeply flawed ways of thinking.

  5. #55

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    Human Rights another name for Socialization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A human has rights as long as it follows the rules of Sozilisation and/or doesn't interferes with projects/ideas of the people in power.
    If these unspoken rules have been broken, especially the latter one, you are doomed to be eliminated.


  6. #56
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Experience View Post
    Human Rights another name for Socialization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A human has rights as long as it follows the rules of Sozilisation and/or doesn't interferes with projects/ideas of the people in power.
    If these unspoken rules have been broken, especially the latter one, you are doomed to be eliminated.

    We encoded Human Rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on 10th of December, 1948.

    We encoded Human Rights on that date in response to the dehumanisation in the Holocaust of Jews and others in the 1930s and 1940s.

    So it is important to remember where our code of Human Rights came from and why we have it.

    Our code of Human Rights is a touchstone of our civilization. And those who reject our code of Human Rights are uncivilized.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We encoded Human Rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on 10th of December, 1948.

    We encoded Human Rights on that date in response to the dehumanization in the Holocaust of Jews and others in the 1930s and 1940s.

    So it is important to remember where our code of Human Rights came from and why we have it.

    Our code of Human Rights is a touchstone of our civilization. And those who reject our code of Human Rights are uncivilized.
    You know that jew stuff is getting old, bet you are from the states. Question here, Palestinian people don't have rights yes? Or any other person that isn't from where you are probably from.
    It's funny how people believe the lies they get dished up. Did you even read the definition of Socialization at all?
    There are much more inhuman ways on how people are killed nowadays;
    for example spreading toxins or bio weapons.
    Another nice treat are radioactive warheads that explode into smaller missiles to contaminate wide areas effectively.
    Human experiments, animal experiments etc, torture, drugging you up, a wide variety to pick you favorite.

    All in all laws like human rights only exist on paper, it's all just plain eyewash to keep the populace under control.
    Oh and if being humane means, being a hypocritical decadent, well I will happily refuse this oh so kind offer.
    Of course you are free to believe what ever you want, but so am I.

  8. #58
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Experience View Post
    You know that jew stuff is getting old, bet you are from the states. Question here, Palestinian people don't have rights yes? Or any other person that isn't from where you are probably from.
    It's funny how people believe the lies they get dished up. Did you even read the definition of Socialization at all?
    There are much more inhuman ways on how people are killed nowadays;
    for example spreading toxins or bio weapons.
    Another nice treat are radioactive warheads that explode into smaller missiles to contaminate wide areas effectively.
    Human experiments, animal experiments etc, torture, drugging you up, a wide variety to pick you favorite.

    All in all laws like human rights only exist on paper, it's all just plain eyewash to keep the populace under control.
    Oh and if being humane means, being a hypocritical decadent, well I will happily refuse this oh so kind offer.
    Of course you are free to believe what ever you want, but so am I.
    Of course you can believe whatever you want, but it means nothing until it is tested against reality.

    And when we test your views against reality, we find you are the enemy of human rights.

    And when you talk about, the jew stuff getting old, you reveal yourself as an anti-semite.

    And we find in the world today that those who reject human rights are also anti-semites. This is not an accident.

    And good heavens, good heavens, you think Mole is from the United States of America.

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