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Thread: Cults

  1. #21
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    ^^ @Coriolis This is a great example of why I dislike posting definitions and think we would be much better off letting the thread flow.

    A cult can be anything. I agree that all cults are characterized by a religious fervour and unquestioning adoration of the leader. But supernatural beliefs aren't required for a cult, it can be tied with politics, or be unrelated to either (cue Justin Bieber, lol). The worship of Kim Il Sung and his descendants as a good example of a politically grounded cult.
    I am more interested in responding to the intended meaning of the OP than comparing his usage with the dictionary. He used the word "cult" to label his idea, but I know from previous experience that "cult" can be a loaded word, with different people having different interpretations. I can assume he is using the dictionary definition, and end up talking about something different from what he means, or I can ask him what he means, so we are discussing the same thing.

    I suppose it all comes down to what you see as the purpose of the discussion to begin with. Of course it is fair game to criticise someone's definition or usage of a word, but even that depends on understanding how they are trying to use it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #22
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    A cult is the early form of religions that have not yet become accepted as mainstream, leading to an internal culture of exclusion & "us vs. the ignorant rest of the world" in turn enables them to use scrutiny from the outside world to further fuel the "they don't understand us" exclusionary factor, and increases the power and thus exploitative leeway cult leaders have with the following - while initial cult leaders might not use that maliciously, early growth pains allowing multiply cult cells will unavoidably increase the chance that some of the leaders will.

  3. #23
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I am more interested in responding to the intended meaning of the OP than comparing his usage with the dictionary. He used the word "cult" to label his idea, but I know from previous experience that "cult" can be a loaded word, with different people having different interpretations. I can assume he is using the dictionary definition, and end up talking about something different from what he means, or I can ask him what he means, so we are discussing the same thing.

    I suppose it all comes down to what you see as the purpose of the discussion to begin with. Of course it is fair game to criticise someone's definition or usage of a word, but even that depends on understanding how they are trying to use it.
    A high control group. I know some cults make their members kill their children. What is the appeal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    A high control group. I know some cults make their members kill their children. What is the appeal?
    That was very common for older religions (example), So common in fact that The First Testament's story of Isaac is often thought to be political commentary against it. Not ordering the sacrifice of your own children was actually considered innovative. Yet it still shows the occasional resurgence - many suspect that the Catholic Church has taken part of child sacrifice as recently as 1967.

    As a distinction from religion, it doesn't quite work.

  5. #25
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    One measure of cult is whether they consider themselves above the law of the land.

    Our present Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse has shown that not only the Roman Catholic Church but other religions and associations regarded themselves above the law of the land.

    So many churches and associations can be accurately described as cults.

    However all of these churches and associations discovered by the Royal Commission have publicly apologised and changed their social practices, all except the Islamists, who openly and publicly defy the law of the land, in our Courts and on our streets, and in social media, and by taking up arms to fight Jihad in foreign countries.

  6. #26
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    One measure of cult is whether they consider themselves above the law of the land.

    Our present Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse has shown that not only the Roman Catholic Church but other religions and associations regarded themselves above the law of the land.

    So many churches and associations can be accurately described as cults.

    However all of these churches and associations discovered by the Royal Commission have publicly apologised and changed their social practices, all except the Islamists, who openly and publicly defy the law of the land, in our Courts and on our streets, and in social media, and by taking up arms to fight Jihad in foreign countries.
    I am aware of this. I often see how most religions could be considered cults. Surely, though Heaven's Gate is worse than say, Methodist?
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

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  7. #27
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    In a cult the leader can't be questioned, for instance, Master Li, the leader of Falun Gong, can't be questioned, so Falun Gong is a cult.

    And in a cult, if the leader is found doing wrong, it makes no difference to the belief or behaviour of the followers. For instance, Carl Gustav Jung has been found to have done considerable evil, yet this does not affect the belief or behaviour of his followers on Typology Central. So Typology Central is a cult.

  8. #28
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    In a cult the leader can't be questioned, for instance, Master Li, the leader of Falun Gong, can't be questioned, so Falun Gong is a cult.

    And in a cult, if the leader is found doing wrong, it makes no difference to the belief or behaviour of the followers. For instance, Carl Gustav Jung has been found to have done considerable evil, yet this does not affect the belief or behaviour of his followers on Typology Central. So Typology Central is a cult.
    He wotked with the nazis, yes...if I'm not mistaken.


    ...but, the theory he created is still a fun toy.
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  9. #29
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    Most people probably already know this, but many (if not most) cult leaders have high levels of narcissism and grandiosity. (Then again, so do many leaders within mainstream religions, but that's a discussion for another thread.) Instead of genuinely wanting to help people connect with god and/or their deeper spiritual natures, it's as though most cult leaders want to be worshipped as gods themselves. They often present themselves as benevolent and nurturing, as well as possessing special powers of personal and spiritual insight, but in reality their only special powers are in manipulating others and the only things they want deep down are control and reverence.

  10. #30
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underwaterthing View Post
    Most people probably already know this, but many (if not most) cult leaders have high levels of narcissism and grandiosity. (Then again, so do many leaders within mainstream religions, but that's a discussion for another thread.) Instead of genuinely wanting to help people connect with god and/or their deeper spiritual natures, it's as though most cult leaders want to be worshipped as gods themselves. They often present themselves as benevolent and nurturing, as well as possessing special powers of personal and spiritual insight, but in reality their only special powers are in manipulating others and the only things they want deep down are control and reverence.
    I experienced this…
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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