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Thread: The soul

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    The soul and the consciousness are both holding the same role, in some cases.
    I disagree with that opinion. For your viewpoint to be plausible we'd need to accept that the fertilized ova is consciously aware prior to the initialization of cellular division & then for the week+ prior to the ova attaching to the uterus wall.
    I just don't see conscious awareness prior to DNA coding being mapped out or coding having been selected to assemble biological software.
    IMHO the new life becomes consciously aware sometime after the brain sufficiently develops.

    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    Perhaps there isn't a soul, but the human body could not be turned back on. The moment we are brain dead, the electrical synapses of our brain cease to exist, and even if a new set took it's place with the exact same encoded knowledge, you would be gone.
    If there isn't a soul, then what enables cellular division while an individual is brain dead (consciously unaware) & on artificial life support?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    I disagree with that opinion. For your viewpoint to be plausible we'd need to accept that the fertilized ova is consciously aware prior to the initialization of cellular division & then for the week+ prior to the ova attaching to the uterus wall.
    I just don't see conscious awareness prior to DNA coding being mapped out or coding having been selected to assemble biological software.
    IMHO the new life becomes consciously aware sometime after the brain sufficiently develops.
    I have been thinking recently, though on a slight tangent, if the first electrical signal in a fetus' newly developed brain was sent through the umbilical cord from the mother, than would the child's consciousness just be an extension of the mother's. Would it be a fraction of it? There are a lot of interesting stories about parents or children "sensing" some catastrophy of their parent's. Could the soul and that first spark come togather? I hate to say that electricity would be the soul though. It seems too simple, and the soul, from my tenuous understanding, is much more potent than a brainwave could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    If there isn't a soul, then what enables cellular division while an individual is brain dead (consciously unaware) & on artificial life support?
    I apologize for the misnomer there. I meant when there is no longer electrical activity, not comatose!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Why does it have to be combining the sperm and the egg
    IMO it's the melding of the parental donors DNA that creates the new 3-dimensional digital code & enables a biological software program to begin building new life's body.
    Sperm by itself can't create a new DNA code & neither can the ova. Each by itself is little more than wasted energy, but combining the two just right can create the building blocks of new life.


    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    both can be alive in their own right both can contain a soul.
    I'd disagree because within a womb neither can sustain itself without the other, "Mother Nature" has seen fit to require that they need one another in order to survive.
    The donor ova & sperm by themselves don't contain a soul but rather they contain half the genetic coding that when combined may create a new soul that's capable of arranging coding into biological software to build new life.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    I have been thinking recently, though on a slight tangent, if the first electrical signal in a fetus' newly developed brain was sent through the umbilical cord from the mother, than would the child's consciousness just be an extension of the mother's. Would it be a fraction of it? There are a lot of interesting stories about parents or children "sensing" some catastrophe of their parent's. Could the soul and that first spark come together? I hate to say that electricity would be the soul though. It seems too simple, and the soul, from my tenuous understanding, is much more potent than a brainwave could be.
    "Could the soul and that first spark come together?" The fertilized ova has been undergoing cellular division for over a week before it even attaches to the wall of the uterus. Something, some energy source has to select a unique 3-dimensional digital code from the donor materials, then organize code to create a biological software program that will build the new life's body by means of cellular division.

    "if the first electrical signal in a fetus' newly developed brain was sent through the umbilical cord from the mother, than would the child's consciousness just be an extension of the mother's?"
    Sure why not, I could buy that being the case. I've no problem recognizing the mother/child connection is much deeper than that between the father/child.
    Also I don't consider that the soul is required to be consciously aware, but rather it's the first spark of life (biological as opposed to mystical). My perspective eliminated the need that souls be a magical entity guided into the embryo by divine angels on a mission from God. Separating biology from religion was akin to lifting a burdening fog from my mind & allowed everything to fit together quite nicely.


    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    I apologize for the misnomer there. I meant when there is no longer electrical activity, not comatose!
    No problemo, it's all good.
    This type stuff used to intrigue me in my younger days but there were so many aspects to consider that I'd end up tangled in a spiderweb of tangential considerations & lost in a sticky maze of dead end speculation.

  5. #55
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    If by soul you mean consciousness, I agree with Sartre that the soul is nothingness, which means that there isn't really anything to bring back except the content of consciousness, including, in normal humans, a body, environment, and stream of thought with a history engraved on them (e.g. the rust on iron). To bring back a person partly entails reconstituting a sufficient number of those things which carry evidence of the person's identity in them to make the resulting configuration of existence a coherent continuation of their life. That alone isn't enough, of course. If I were to build a clone of myself and put him on a clone of this world and at the same moment destroy myself, I would not suddenly be seeing the world through his eyes (except in the shallow sense that I see the world through everyone's eyes). My story would continue on through the fragments of my destroyed body and its environment, which would not carry any personally meaningful sense of my previous self in them. My body would need to be put back together or otherwise tied causally to such an environment in such a way as would allow me to pick up my previous life where I left off. It could be done if we had the necessary technology and a psychological rather than purely physical understanding of the causal ties connecting a living person to a corpse to whatever it might proceed to become after that. That's rather difficult to do, as there isn't any clear center of consciousness like a functioning brain left. When a person's body decays, it's as though their consciousness undergoes fission after fission; which child should be resurrected? All of them or any of them would seem to be the answer, except "any of them" would be a frightening prospect for *you,* whichever bit of what used to be you is the one you're carrying along as your body. It would be a very difficult lottery to win.

    I imagine if you were to fragment yourself in just the right way--for example, if they were to slice your brain in half at just the right location and during just the right instant of thought--the results would be very interesting indeed, provided both halves of the self could be preserved. Which one would have priority as a causal continuation? If the answer were both, then instantaneous communication between two places any distance apart would be possible. This might be happening on a very tiny level whenever little causal streams split off from a person, such as when a limb is severed. If so, the situation of decay might be the scattering of little seeds of consciousness, not diminished or cut off from each other but only rarified; and eventually some of them might simultaneously take root and sprout in far-apart places. Except I imagine the consciousness would experience these places as being somewhat in proximity to each other. There might be a consciousness that, when it claps its hands, is very quickly and easily sending a signal from what would look to us like one end of the cosmos to the other.
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