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Thread: The soul

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Break an egg, leave it out for a day and try to get it back together again. If you can't, it doesn't mean that it has a soul. We're very complicated eggs.
    That must be one gigantic egg to be able to compare it to the human body.
    Why not compare a recently fertilized human egg within a uterus to whatever egg you're referring to?

    So you've broken your egg, left it out for a day & can't put Humpty the egg back together again.
    Suzy Jane was recently impregnated, she's late for work one morning & driving her vehicle erratically which causes her to crash the vehicle she's driving. During that crash her abdomen impacts the steering wheel violently, causing irreparable damage to her fertilized egg within her uterus. That "broken egg" will likely end up in the toilet next month without her ever being aware that she was pregnant.

    IMO there's very little difference between the destruction of the two eggs except that the egg in your scenario is likely the type fertilized externally & human eggs are fertilized internally but it's a better comparison rather than a seed of life vs a fully grown body.

    Just saying "Apples to Apples" rather than apples to watermelons.

  2. #42
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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
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    Perhaps a better comparison to the soul, would be a consciousness. Instead of the "irreparable egg" think of the flow of electricity through your neurons.This electrical current is the continuing flow of your thoughts and while your brain has a burnt in pattern that is your personality and your memories and who you are to others, but the flow of electricity is your consciousness. You are only aware because it flows constantly back and fourth. The moment it stops who you are right now is gone. If you were to die, you would be gone to your self.
    Perhaps I can pop a new spark into your brain and return the personality and memories, and you would be returned to us, but the new you would only have a copy of the consciousness.

    That is generally considered a scientific fact. Maybe there is more than just the spark that is your consciousness. In my opinion the electric current and your soul are the two energies that make you you to yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    Perhaps a better comparison to the soul, would be a consciousness. Instead of the "irreparable egg" think of the flow of electricity through your neurons.This electrical current is the continuing flow of your thoughts and while your brain has a burnt in pattern that is your personality and your memories and who you are to others, but the flow of electricity is your consciousness. You are only aware because it flows constantly back and fourth. The moment it stops who you are right now is gone. If you were to die, you would be gone to your self.
    Perhaps I can pop a new spark into your brain and return the personality and memories, and you would be returned to us, but the new you would only have a copy of the consciousness.

    That is generally considered a scientific fact. Maybe there is more than just the spark that is your consciousness. In my opinion the electric current and your soul are the two energies that make you you to yourself.

    It's an interesting idea.

    How does sleep work in context of this?
    (That was the first thing that came to mind.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #45
    Senior Member renaiziphonts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's an interesting idea.

    How does sleep work in context of this?
    (That was the first thing that came to mind.)
    Sleep isn't the loss of consciousness, it is the loss of communication with the body. It's a good question though, Freud and Jung both took a lot of effort to answer that one, because loss of total consciousness defied several sleep studies that they had completed.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaiziphonts View Post
    The soul and the consciousness are both holding the same role, in some cases. Perhaps there isn't a soul, but the human body could not be turned back on. The moment we are brain dead, the electrical synapses of our brain cease to exist, and even if a new set took it's place with the exact same encoded knowledge, you would be gone.
    A better way of thinking of this, is if I made a robot that thought and acted and looked just like you, and you died, would you live on as that robot, or would the robot just mimic you?

    I, however, do believe in the soul. Not sure about a god, and I don't need proof. It just makes sense.
    This is a good point and what I'm been trying to get at, thanks for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    I'd respectfully disagree regarding souls being a theological construct that can't be scientifically proven.
    When I went through my questioning religion phase I occasionally pondered similar ideas. I eventually decided that the soul was biological rather than spiritual, it's the combining of the energy within the sperm & egg which leads to the creation of the soul.
    IMO souls are biological reality that could be proven were science to combine an egg/sperm within an artificial womb & carefully observe the instant the combined energy sparked the creation of new life.
    I think that after the energy from the parental donors is combined & a new DNA map is determined, there's a spark of life that selects coding to become biological software. The soul is that "life force" that snaps into existence an instant prior to the initialization of cellular division.
    I think that every living thing complex enough to have DNA must also have a soul.
    Why does it have to be combining the sperm and the egg, both can be alive in their own right both can contain a soul. The sperm has a tail that needs to find it's way into the ovum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Go to Calabria and no one, absolutely no one, has ever even heard of the mafia.
    What does this false statement have to do with anything?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Please quantify this "energy of combining the sperm and egg."
    I'm not a research biologist or geneticist, but how difficult could it be to determine the number of calories within both sperm & ova? Biologist could then convert the known combined calories to kW-h & figure an average.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Please quantify this "spark of life" and/or "life force that snaps into existence." Where does it come from? What is it? Why does it come into existence? How do we detect it?
    As I suggested above, biologists could measure the caloric content of both sperm/ova & convert the known calories to kW-h. I've no idea how much energy to subtract due to both consumption while the combined donor DNA is arranged into a new 3-dimensional digital blueprint for the new life & the energy required to select a biological software program that initiates cellular division likely within the first day or two.
    There has to be sufficient energy to power cellular division for at least a week because there's likely no energy transfer from the mother's body to the fertilized ova until after it attaches to the uterus.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There was talk of a "death code" being embodied in the cell and once it gets triggered, cell death occurs.

    Of course, death can occur for other kinds of reasons as well on the large scale.
    Death code sounds like something out of Blade Runner.
    Wouldn't a death code require energy in order to function?
    If not wouldn't that violate the laws of nature (no free lunch type of thing)?

    I think that I'll stick to my guns on this one, that upon death the life force no longer enables cellular division & that causes the body to begin decaying. Unless you're alluding there's residual energy remaining with the body which enables cellular activity after death, I don't get how a death code would function.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    I'm not a research biologist or geneticist, but how difficult could it be to determine the number of calories within both sperm & ova? Biologist could then convert the known combined calories to kW-h & figure an average.



    As I suggested above, biologists could measure the caloric content of both sperm/ova & convert the known calories to kW-h. I've no idea how much energy to subtract due to both consumption while the combined donor DNA is arranged into a new 3-dimensional digital blueprint for the new life & the energy required to select a biological software program that initiates cellular division likely within the first day or two.
    There has to be sufficient energy to power cellular division for at least a week because there's likely no energy transfer from the mother's body to the fertilized ova until after it attaches to the uterus.





    Death code sounds like something out of Blade Runner.
    Wouldn't a death code require energy in order to function?
    If not wouldn't that violate the laws of nature (no free lunch type of thing)?

    I think that I'll stick to my guns on this one, that upon death the life force no longer enables cellular division & that causes the body to begin decaying. Unless you're alluding there's residual energy remaining with the body which enables cellular activity after death, I don't get how a death code would function.
    As far as death codes go, there is a strain on the end of chromosomes called a telomere. It's like the aglet on the end of a shoelace: It holds it togather. Each time a cell devides, it cuts the telomere in half. Eventually there just isn't enough telomere in your body to hold all the chromosomes together. A death code is a misconceptions. It's more like simply running out of glue and having to through the rest of your glitter on the floor in defeat.

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