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  1. #11
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post

    I wouldn't want to pay for someone's elective surgery, especially something expensive like an amputation, but if the individual is aware of the consequences of such a request, then he should have the right to mutilate his body. What say you?
    Sure. They could saw it off with a steak knife in the middle of the night when the issue got bad too. I just don't know that they're really aware of the consequences, regardless of how the limb comes off.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quality of life is the answer, i feel. If it causes chronic psychological damage and pain, who are we to condemn them to that?

    Especially of we have no other satisfying way to treat them at present. To deny them this would be downright cruel.
    Last edited by Amargith; 06-13-2014 at 01:23 PM.
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  3. #13
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee
    I just don't know that they're really aware of the consequences, regardless of how the limb comes off.
    These people are fully aware of the consequences/implications of the act. Should they be allowed to get that procedure?
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    These people are fully aware of the consequences/implications of the act. Should they be allowed to get that procedure?
    Yes, it's their body.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    There's a fascinating section in this book I'm currently reading about a mental illness called "body integrity identity disorder" or BIID.
    if it is a mental illness as you say then it needs to be treated that way. i can't imagine any physician doing elective amputations. that completely violates the hippocratic oath. just because a person is in psychological pain doesn't mean physicians should collude with their mental disorder. i don't really see an ethical dilemma in this at all. emotional pain is unfortunately a part of life, but it is there to tell us something is wrong that needs to be dealt with–not avoided through amputation.

  6. #16
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    We seem to be treating the limb as if it's its own sentient life form. It has no brain tissue. Nerve tissue, but no brain tissue.

  7. #17
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower
    i can't imagine any physician doing elective amputations.
    This is done all the time. Think breast reduction surgery and sex-change operations (with male patients, this means castration).
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #18
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    Individual doctors should have the right to refuse to do the surgery, or any other surgery they personally feel is unethical.

    However if a mentally healthy person wants to mutilate or amputate their own body part, and can find a doctor to do it for them, who am I to tell them that they cannot do so? My only concern would be weeding out the people who are mentally ill (in the sense that they might recover from their illness and really regret the decision later on).

  9. #19
    Member LadyRain's Avatar
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    What an interesting thread. Helping someone cut off a limb has become an ethical dilemma while suicide is literally illegal (punishable if the person fails). The only difference is in it's hated subject and the matter of extremes. Beyond this, I can certainly see the validity in these arguments:


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is a tough call. Honestly, if there is no other way for the individual to be releaved of psychological pain, then I think it should be permitted. Psychological pain is no joke (I've experience it many times), and can be just as bad as physical pain (and having experienced kidney stones, I know bad physical pain too). This clearly is a psychological disorder, and they need to be treated. So the whole "do no harm" thing is sort of moot. It's harmful either way to leave them or treat them.

    I think that after all possible forms of therapy, medication, etc. have been exausted and proven to not work, then it could be permitted. They'd need to do a full psychological evaluation to see if there are any other underlying problems, but if that checks out then they can go forward. I'd also imagine a legal waiver would have to be signed so the individuals working for the hospital could not be sued or similar if they have a change of heat. The limbs could also be donated to individual needing a transplant so it wouldn't be completely for naught.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    if it is a mental illness as you say then it needs to be treated that way. i can't imagine any physician doing elective amputations. that completely violates the hippocratic oath. just because a person is in psychological pain doesn't mean physicians should collude with their mental disorder. i don't really see an ethical dilemma in this at all. emotional pain is unfortunately a part of life, but it is there to tell us something is wrong that needs to be dealt with–not avoided through amputation.

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    This is a neurological condition as far as I know, and until there is a way to alter that root of the problem, amputation appears to be the better outcome for the patient than deciding to keep the limb. So, amputate the limb.

    As for it being elective, that's kind of debatable. Technically, there are a lot of surgeries that could be called elective that reduce physical suffering or increase life span that we wouldn't typically think of as elective for that reason. I think this condition can fall within that heading.

    And I'm totally okay with paying for such a condition because I favor public health care.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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