User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 90

  1. #51
    Member Fingers Superstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gokartride View Post
    Ah, but that is where it works best!!!!! "The" meaning is everything you'd expect it to be...complex, nuanced, all-encompassing, huge...and shows it's true "stuff" in the worst of times. I have seen this myself....as I said, it is not simplistic. It is shockingly bulletproof, and impressive when you see principles (that may initially seem theoretical) put through the furnace in the most difficult times imaginable.

    The only reason I mention it at all is because people in our cynical age don't even believe it exists, and so never even seek it. There is not much I can add to the INFJ discussions...but I can give what little I have.
    We're in conflict here, that smells like Christian faith, not my tipple at all. We should agree to disagree at this point.

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fingers Superstar View Post
    We're in conflict here, that smells like Christian faith, not my tipple at all. We should agree to disagree at this point.
    I have no problem with agreeing to disagree (which I'm sure we do at some point), but what I'm speaking of is a synthesis of many mystical traditions, not just one. This is one of the reasons I find it so compelling.

  3. #53
    Member Shadowrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Can't say I ever understood the basic human need to cling to something greater like a flea to a dog's back. What makes you think there's some greater meaning to everything, some greater truth? Some simplistic, complex system around us beyond the real world that dictates what we do and why we do it?

    I mean, on some level I understand it.. people are afraid that there might not be anything beyond, that there isn't any divine grace that we must always appeal to.. but it always seems to overshadow the unadulterated glory that exists when you live life because it truly is all you have.

    For a random side note, one of the last vestiges of mystics is slowly being broken down, the concepts of Consciousness and the Self, ones I've always considered to be applied to the soul. It seems that the deeper they get into these concepts, the more neuroscientists are finding that they are, essentially, mechanical processes of the mind. There's certainly far more to study, but I find it to be terribly interesting.

  4. #54
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    the only truth is destruction

    the only purpose is desolation
    Sounds like a frightened little boy to me.

  5. #55
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowrose View Post
    Can't say I ever understood the basic human need to cling to something greater like a flea to a dog's back. What makes you think there's some greater meaning to everything, some greater truth? Some simplistic, complex system around us beyond the real world that dictates what we do and why we do it?

    I mean, on some level I understand it.. people are afraid that there might not be anything beyond, that there isn't any divine grace that we must always appeal to.. but it always seems to overshadow the unadulterated glory that exists when you live life because it truly is all you have.

    For a random side note, one of the last vestiges of mystics is slowly being broken down, the concepts of Consciousness and the Self, ones I've always considered to be applied to the soul. It seems that the deeper they get into these concepts, the more neuroscientists are finding that they are, essentially, mechanical processes of the mind. There's certainly far more to study, but I find it to be terribly interesting.
    This is an interesting post and you sound like an interesting person.

    What is interesting about mysticism is that it is independent of the supernatural.

    Various religions have their various mysticisms but they all seem to be the same.

    And most interestingly each myticism seems to undermine the supernatural claims of their religion.

  6. #56
    Member Shadowrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is an interesting post and you sound like an interesting person.
    Er, Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What is interesting about mysticism is that it is independent of the supernatural.

    Various religions have their various mysticisms but they all seem to be the same.

    And most interestingly each myticism seems to undermine the supernatural claims of their religion.
    Not entirely certain what you're trying to get at, here. First, I didn't say anything about Mysticism. Yes, I referred to Mystics but I meant the term in the more general sense of people that believe there is some greater truth in the universe. As far as Mysticism in regards to the supernatural, they.. don't really undermine each other in terms of each religion, I would also point out that mysticism, by its very nature, cannot be independent of the supernatural. I do appreciate religions because they are often internally consistent in their supernatural beliefs.

    My point was aimed at the broader group of faithful in the world.

    P.S.

    Mysticism (Philosophy): The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.

    I.e. that one can achieve the supernatural via a given act or process.

  7. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowrose View Post
    My point was aimed at the broader group of faithful in the world.
    I think people have come to believe in a greater force/presence through observation, experiences, and the like. This probably was the primivite instinct, and I think it is still present today for the same reason as we study the micro and macro of existence. I don't think it is about control or dictatorships, though...although it can be abused that way by those who do not understand it. It is more about a sense of connection to something beyond our grasp, but yet very present to us in all things.

    I will say that the image of the old man in the beard is what many people object to, and rightly so...it was always a caricature and it is sorely outdated. Equally sad is that many people's religious understanding has not evolved much past grade school, and so rejection is based on things they grew past, thinking that was all there was.

    But no...belief can also be critical, analytical, sophisticated, enlightened and mature. The trick for me was to befriend some folks like this...suddenly I was able to see the subject in a whole other light.

  8. #58
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowrose View Post
    Not entirely certain what you're trying to get at, here. First, I didn't say anything about Mysticism. Yes, I referred to Mystics but I meant the term in the more general sense of people that believe there is some greater truth in the universe. As far as Mysticism in regards to the supernatural, they.. don't really undermine each other in terms of each religion, I would also point out that mysticism, by its very nature, cannot be independent of the supernatural. I do appreciate religions because they are often internally consistent in their supernatural beliefs.

    My point was aimed at the broader group of faithful in the world.

    P.S.

    Mysticism (Philosophy): The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.

    I.e. that one can achieve the supernatural via a given act or process.
    Sure, but from my perspective the process of mysticism undermines its aim.

    It seems to me that mysticism is a process of transcendence.

    And this is a dangerous process for anyone to take part in.

    And it is particularly dangerous for those who believe in the supernatural. Because the question will naturally occur, what happens when you transcend the supernatural?

    Over many different religions, in many different times, mystics have been put to death for asking this question.

    Because this is a fundamentally subversive question to ask supernatural religion.

    But it seems to me that mysticism is fundamentally subversive.

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    it seems to me that mysticism is fundamentally subversive.
    You may be right!!! To some it will seem this way...to others, though, it is an invitation (nothing more or less) because it is a path, given our uniqueness, one must find for themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And it is particularly dangerous for those who believe in the supernatural. Because the question will naturally occur, what happens when you transcend the supernatural?
    Logically this would seem the case but from what I can tell it never happens. Why? Because the whole thing is about "connection to", not "attainment of." As one progresses (if we can call it that) in the mystical life what happens is that we see more clearly the object of our quest. We find not that we have "progressed" much at all, but we finally realize the true overwhelming immensity of that which we seek. That's the stunner!! Here words seem pointless...the only response is humility and love and gratitude. We never "attain" we only become connected to a greatness that is "other."

  10. #60
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    The meaning of life is to fulfill our pleasure drives. Just look at how we are put together, we spend all day trying to maximize pleasure and minimize pain, so perhaps that is the meaning of our lives.

Similar Threads

  1. The Meaning of Life
    By Legion in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-27-2016, 02:26 AM
  2. Recent ruminations on the meaning of life
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 09-01-2015, 08:08 PM
  3. The meaning of life
    By RaptorWizard in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-28-2012, 12:51 PM
  4. Convictions and the meaning of life?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-21-2011, 03:13 AM
  5. [MBTItm] the meaning of life
    By sculpting in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 03-18-2009, 11:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO