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  1. #1
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Default The most Atheist Atheist.

    Bear with me, I'm nerding out on this right now...

    I just watched this documentary, 'The Pervert's Guide to Ideology'. It attempts to expose and explain the frame work of ideology. The narrator had some very interesting things to say about Christianity.

    He points out that the centerpiece of Christianity is the release from ideology. He doesn't claim that modern Christianity has no ideology, but he does claim that the message of Jesus on the Cross is the destruction of Judaic ideology.

    He claims that every ideology has the idea of "the Big Other" that grants you *something* as long as you have an agreement, a contract. The ideological contract for Judaism is, which is illustrated in the story of Job is: "Do what you are told, though it may be unfathomable and you may suffer, you will be rewarded with being right."

    Jesus was a symbolic negation of the Big Other, when he was made to suffer and not rewarded, thus him saying "My God, why have you forsaken me?". At this moment, the message is to no longer look to the requirements of the Big Other, because it does not exist. Instead look to the needs of community, which is a heavy theme in Christianity and the distinguishing characteristic of early Christianity.

    The narrator says in this way, the early Christian was more Atheist than the modern Atheist born the Atheism. If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.

    Your god, your 'Big Other', would be something else that you may not be capable of recognizing and are blinded to by the gift of being right, a function of the contract of your born to ideology. A Christian become Atheist knows that moment upon where there is no thing, where individual choice is the the only god, with no promise of gift or reward.
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  2. #2
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Back in the days, God & spirituality were a given for pretty much every one, but it makes sense that they would be 'Atheist' in the 'deviating from organized religion' way.

    If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.
    Agreed

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  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    This shit head is the #1 atheist http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...d_dawkins.html

    Or as he defines himself; an antitheist . Cuz just not believing is not enough, he needs to see himself as antithesis of a theist
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #5
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    This shit head is the #1 atheist http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...d_dawkins.html

    Or as he defines himself; an antitheist . Cuz just not believing is not enough, he needs to see himself as antithesis of a theist
    He is a good man with very good ideas. I wouldn't be so quick to call him a ''shit head.''
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  6. #6
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Bear with me, I'm nerding out on this right now...

    I just watched this documentary, 'The Pervert's Guide to Ideology'. It attempts to expose and explain the frame work of ideology. The narrator had some very interesting things to say about Christianity.

    He points out that the centerpiece of Christianity is the release from ideology. He doesn't claim that modern Christianity has no ideology, but he does claim that the message of Jesus on the Cross is the destruction of Judaic ideology.

    He claims that every ideology has the idea of "the Big Other" that grants you *something* as long as you have an agreement, a contract. The ideological contract for Judaism is, which is illustrated in the story of Job is: "Do what you are told, though it may be unfathomable and you may suffer, you will be rewarded with being right."

    Jesus was a symbolic negation of the Big Other, when he was made to suffer and not rewarded, thus him saying "My God, why have you forsaken me?". At this moment, the message is to no longer look to the requirements of the Big Other, because it does not exist. Instead look to the needs of community, which is a heavy theme in Christianity and the distinguishing characteristic of early Christianity.

    The narrator says in this way, the early Christian was more Atheist than the modern Atheist born the Atheism. If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.

    Your god, your 'Big Other', would be something else that you may not be capable of recognizing and are blinded to by the gift of being right, a function of the contract of your born to ideology. A Christian become Atheist knows that moment upon where there is no thing, where individual choice is the the only god, with no promise of gift or reward.
    The above is christian propaganda and is anti-semitic.

    In fact ideology is -

    1. predigested thought
    2. serves interests
    3. and has a demonology.

    So christianity is an excellent example of an ideology.

  7. #7
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The above is christian propaganda and is anti-semitic.

    In fact ideology is -

    1. predigested thought
    2. serves interests
    3. and has a demonology.

    So christianity is an excellent example of an ideology.
    Oh, Mole, you completely missed all of the points and didn't even get close to actually commenting on what was actually said.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Oh, Mole, you completely missed all of the points and didn't even get close to actually commenting on what was actually said.
    We live in different worlds. Your post is of interest to me in that it may spark a creative response. And indeed my response is the meaning of your post. So tirelessly accusing me of being off topic is tiresome.

    Books have topics, in the electronic media everything is connected to everything else, and creativity is at a premium.

    Those who are backward value control, and those who look forward value creativity.

    I loathe control, whether it is USA foreign policy, or busybodies trying to control how I write and think.

    But I love creativity.

  9. #9
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We live in different worlds. Your post is of interest to me in that it may spark a creative response. And indeed my response is the meaning of your post. So tirelessly accusing me of being off topic is tiresome.

    Books have topics, in the electronic media everything is connected to everything else, and creativity is at a premium.

    Those who are backward value control, and those who look forward value creativity.

    I loathe control, whether it is USA foreign policy, or busybodies trying to control how I write and think.

    But I love creativity.
    Dude, it's not about being off topic. It's about misrepresenting what I actually said for your own purposes, that is wrong and distasteful in any dialog. And even if creativity trumps being on topic, you had nothing particularly new to add to the dialog. It was just a your knee jerk reaction to isolated keywords.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Dude, it's not about being off topic. It's about misrepresenting what I actually said for your own purposes, that is wrong and distasteful in any dialog. And even if creativity trumps being on topic, you had nothing particularly new to add to the dialog. It was just a your knee jerk reaction to isolated keywords.
    My God, you want me to validate you.

    Creativity requires no validation, creativity is self validating, creativity is self directing, creativity dances on its own two feet!

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