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  1. #51
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    True, though everything has it's trade-offs.
    Hah, this is a very general statement and very difficult to discuss... but I have this dream that for every reaction there is an opposite and equally beneficial reaction, if things are done just right.

  2. #52
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Hahaha!

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I don't remember if I posted in this thread once, but here are some thoughts...

    What's being proposed here is a particular interpretation of Christianity. Everyone seems to have a different one. And from what I've studied of early Christian scholarship (more than I ever wanted to) it seems this was true all the way back to the beginning. In other words, I'm not convinced that we can generalize that early Christians were freer from ideology because I do not see compelling evidence that this truly was the fundamental point and early Christians understood it.

    Regardless of what early Christians had in mind, that of course has little relevance to what modern Christians think. It has evolved to a great extent and in many different directions and I certainly don't believe that modern Christians have a belief that makes them more independent of ideology or without a Big Other.

    So there's this idea that an apostate is more atheist because they have the experience of rejecting an ideology. This is not self-evident. There needs to be some serious arguments to validate the idea that rejecting one ideology makes your freer than not having it. I think of Ayn Rand, who fiercely rejected the ideology of the Soviets, and in doing so moved into a totally blind acceptance of a different ideology. I grant that an apostate may have more experience with applying critical thought to their world view than a born atheist, but in the conversation I've had with apostates it seems like some part of them still clings to religion in a way that I've not found lifelong atheists to do. One area where is pretty consistently comes up is arguing that god does not matter, that is, even god's existence is not fundamentally important and would not satisfy the toughest questions. I find life long atheists usually agree with this, while apostates usually do not.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
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    Default The Atheist and Rip Van Winkle

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't remember if I posted in this thread once, but here are some thoughts...

    What's being proposed here is a particular interpretation of Christianity. Everyone seems to have a different one. And from what I've studied of early Christian scholarship (more than I ever wanted to) it seems this was true all the way back to the beginning. In other words, I'm not convinced that we can generalize that early Christians were freer from ideology because I do not see compelling evidence that this truly was the fundamental point and early Christians understood it.

    Regardless of what early Christians had in mind, that of course has little relevance to what modern Christians think. It has evolved to a great extent and in many different directions and I certainly don't believe that modern Christians have a belief that makes them more independent of ideology or without a Big Other.

    So there's this idea that an apostate is more atheist because they have the experience of rejecting an ideology. This is not self-evident. There needs to be some serious arguments to validate the idea that rejecting one ideology makes your freer than not having it. I think of Ayn Rand, who fiercely rejected the ideology of the Soviets, and in doing so moved into a totally blind acceptance of a different ideology. I grant that an apostate may have more experience with applying critical thought to their world view than a born atheist, but in the conversation I've had with apostates it seems like some part of them still clings to religion in a way that I've not found lifelong atheists to do. One area where is pretty consistently comes up is arguing that god does not matter, that is, even god's existence is not fundamentally important and would not satisfy the toughest questions. I find life long atheists usually agree with this, while apostates usually do not.
    The religion of Christianity was created not by ideology but by theology.

    Theology has a very, very long history going right back 200,000 years to astrology, the first religion, and the ur-religion.

    But quite recently the Western Enlightenment taught us critical thinking based on evidence and reason.

    And critical thinking has the effect of waking us from our religious trance, of enlightening us.

    So the modern atheist has just woken from a 200,000 year religious trance.

    Indeed we might say the modern atheist is a Rip Van Winkle.

  5. #55
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    I am the most athiestic person on the forum. I support any measures necessary to avoid living in a Islamic theocracy, or a god-king worshipping Communist state.

    A liberal atheist is a contradiction in terms, practically speaking. Christians have more to gain from immigration than atheists do.

  6. #56
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I am the most athiestic person on the forum. I support any measures necessary to avoid living in a Islamic theocracy, or a god-king worshipping Communist state.

    A liberal atheist is a contradiction in terms, practically speaking. Christians have more to gain from immigration than atheists do.

    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I am the most athiestic person on the forum.
    While you are silently musing you might like to consider that, what we worship we become.

    So I would ask you, what do you worship, or what do you secretly worship, and what are you becoming?

    What does our most atheist atheist worship?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    While you are silently musing you might like to consider that, what we worship we become.

    So I would ask you, what do you worship, or what do you secretly worship, and what are you becoming?

    What does our most atheist atheist worship?
    I worship gorgeous women. However, the last time I looked I still had a penis.

  9. #59
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    Default Animus and Anima

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I worship gorgeous women. However, the last time I looked I still had a penis.
    Let us continue musing: you worship gorgeous women, but you are not physically becoming a woman. So it is your psyche that is becoming your anima.

    Naturally you are physically male and so your psyche has a male animus. But in order to relate to women your psyche needs to develop your anima.

    So very cleverly your psyche gets you to worship gorgeous women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Let us continue musing: you worship gorgeous women, but you are not physically becoming a woman. So it is your psyche that is becoming your anima.

    Naturally you are physically male and so your psyche has a male animus. But in order to relate to women your psyche needs to develop your anima.

    So very cleverly your psyche gets you to worship gorgeous women.
    You wouldn't know a joke if it danced naked in front of you.

    And in the off chance it did, you wouldn't know what to do, either.

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