Christianity

[Typh0n]

The fascinating thing about Christianity is that its founder was not a Christian. Yes, the very founder of Christianity was a Jew who followed the religion of Judaism. So it was the later followers of this Jew who created Christianity. And what chutzpah, they even went as far as to blame the torture and death of this Jew on the Jews themselves.

There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross

-Nietzsche

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm surrounded by Christian zealots as peers so it's more in line of a social standing and using it as a tool of spreading word on life and humanity instead of treating it as a ticket to heaven.

Other people are surrounded by condescending atheists....

Everyone has their cross to bear.

 

[prplchknz]

 

[five sounds]

lol, oh geez. i really hate this kind of thing. attributing random coincidences in ones favor to divine intervention is like, demeaning.

as far as the conversation happening about prayers being answered. prayer isn't supposed to be a person asking God for things and God deciding whether or not they deserve rent money or to be cured of cancer. that kind of narrow view of spirituality and God's place in humanity is a large part of what keeps people seeing Christianity as a hokey fairy tale. God already is working whether you're praying or not. to pray is to tap into that. to tune into what God's doing and attempt to sync up.

 

[OptoGypsy]

Other people are surrounded by condescending atheists....

Everyone has their cross to bear.

You're completely right and I hold the title of a Christian and go through the hardship of carrying my cross of not truly believing in the super natural aspects of it but to reach a group of zealots on topics/discussions I find important such as the republican party goes against the ideas that Jesus Christ gave them to live by, etc

 

[OptoGypsy]

There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross

-Nietzsche

Yup and everyone else is a wanna be existentialist that wants to live their lives in a similar way to his (Ghandi, every INFJ out there) while failing to do so since they are afraid of the idea that is hell. It has becomes the SJs (and other types I just like miss-treating the SJs ) greatest marketing tool into getting people to do what they want

 

[Hive]

lol, oh geez. i really hate this kind of thing. attributing random coincidences in ones favor to divine intervention is like, demeaning.

as far as the conversation happening about prayers being answered. prayer isn't supposed to be a person asking God for things and God deciding whether or not they deserve rent money or to be cured of cancer. that kind of narrow view of spirituality and God's place in humanity is a large part of what keeps people seeing Christianity as a hokey fairy tale. God already is working whether you're praying or not. to pray is to tap into that. to tune into what God's doing and attempt to sync up.

Yeah, I was only responding to what I thought was problematic with [MENTION=14074]wildflower[/MENTION]'s example.


I'm actually very interested in religion and study it on university level. As part of an assignment I attented a service at a pentecostal church where the topic of the sermon was the role and function of prayer, as well as a practical how-to guide. The pastor described it similarly - as a way to synchronize with God, letting His plan become yours and your plan His. He compared it to synchronizing your iPhone to send and retrieve information from iCloud.

He also told an anecdote of when a friend of his had been in fourth grade. There was a new kid at their school who quickly became the target of bullying. The pastor's friend felt that it was wrong, yet did nothing about it and even participated sometimes since kids easily succumb to peer pressure. He was a devout Christian however, and one night he had prayed to God, asking for advice how to handle this, because he wanted to help his classmate and felt guilty for doing nothing. After praying, he experienced something of a "moment of clarity" and felt compelled to do what is right and stand up for the bullied kid, which he did, again and again, even if he also became a target by doing so, because he was convinced that it was the right thing to do.

It got me thinking about if religious people in general have better morals (as in, more likely to act according to their ethics) because they find a source of conviction and strength in God, and if religion actually is necessary (or at least the most effective way) to create a moral society. The problem, of course, is that members of the out-group will suffer discrimination, and that it's impossible to decide who has the prerogative to separate right from wrong.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You're completely right and I hold the title of a Christian and go through the hardship of carrying my cross of not truly believing in the super natural aspects of it but to reach a group of zealots on topics/discussions I find important such as the republican party goes against the ideas that Jesus Christ gave them to live by, etc

So its the GOP you have a problem with not, Christians?

What's your problem with the GOP?

 

[five sounds]

Yeah, I was only responding to what I thought was problematic with [MENTION=14074]wildflower[/MENTION]'s example.


I'm actually very interested in religion and study it on university level. As part of an assignment I attented a service at a pentecostal church where the topic of the sermon was the role and function of prayer, as well as a practical how-to guide. The pastor described it similarly - as a way to synchronize with God, letting His plan become yours and your plan His. He compared it to synchronizing your iPhone to send and retrieve information from iCloud.

He also told an anecdote of when a friend of his had been in fourth grade. There was a new kid at their school who quickly became the target of bullying. The pastor's friend felt that it was wrong, yet did nothing about it and even participated sometimes since kids easily succumb to peer pressure. He was a devout Christian however, and one night he had prayed to God, asking for advice how to handle this, because he wanted to help his classmate and felt guilty for doing nothing. After praying, he experienced something of a "moment of clarity" and felt compelled to do what is right and stand up for the bullied kid, which he did, again and again, even if he also became a target by doing so, because he was convinced that it was the right thing to do.

It got me thinking about if religious people in general have better morals (as in, more likely to act according to their ethics) because they find a source of conviction and strength in God, and if religion actually is necessary (or at least the most effective way) to create a moral society. The problem, of course, is that members of the out-group will suffer discrimination, and that it's impossible to decide who has the prerogative to separate right from wrong.

haha! pastors and their 'cool pop culture tie-ins' are a reason i have a really hard time finding a church to attend. sometimes there's just too much fluff.

anyway, i wasn't responding directly to your critique of wildflower's post, but just to the idea in general. that picture prpl posted was really what got me on the whole tangent.

as far as creating a moral society, i take a really Fi approach to that whole idea. i have a kind of a 'thing' with the word religion. religion is the physical practice of spirituality. the problem is, as soon as things are put into the physical realm, the dirty hands and minds of man are all over them. so, like the little fourth grader, i think we should all seek guidance as to our own personal 'religion' at any given moment. how can i live out what i'm spiritually convicted of? what is 'right' in this situation? this also calls into the ring the question of spiritual maturity. it's a process. and i believe that where i'm at is much different from someone who's had a strong spiritual life for decades and decades. are we called to the same 'religion'? no way. i'm gonna get things wrong more, but that doesn't mean that my practice is wrong. i'm doing my best where i'm at, and none of us, not even the most spiritually mature, is on par with God.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

chinchilla surprise

 

[johnnyyukon]

You're completely right and I hold the title of a Christian and go through the hardship of carrying my cross of not truly believing in the super natural aspects of it but to reach a group of zealots on topics/discussions I find important such as the republican party goes against the ideas that Jesus Christ gave them to live by, etc

So its the GOP you have a problem with not, Christians?
What's your problem with the GOP?

Hey uh, yo youz guys, who sed sumthin' bout the Geo-P?? You gotta problem with da Geo-P??

Watch out! GOP Goon squad.

 

[gromit]

lol, oh geez. i really hate this kind of thing. attributing random coincidences in ones favor to divine intervention is like, demeaning.

as far as the conversation happening about prayers being answered. prayer isn't supposed to be a person asking God for things and God deciding whether or not they deserve rent money or to be cured of cancer. that kind of narrow view of spirituality and God's place in humanity is a large part of what keeps people seeing Christianity as a hokey fairy tale. God already is working whether you're praying or not. to pray is to tap into that. to tune into what God's doing and attempt to sync up.

Yeah I like that approach to prayer.

I also think though that there's something to be said for relishing in those small moments like that, being grateful for things. I wouldn't necessarily take it as evidence for the existence of the divine, but taking delight in small and simple moments is part of spiritual living to me.

 

[five sounds]

Yeah I like that approach to prayer.

I also think though that there's something to be said for relishing in those small moments like that, being grateful for things. I wouldn't necessarily take it as evidence for the existence of the divine, but taking delight in small and simple moments is part of spiritual living to me.

oh most definitely. i get all welled up and grateful for small things all the time. and that is spiritual to me as well. just appreciating the beautiful nuances of creation and being thankful that i get to experience them.

 

[Hive]

haha! pastors and their 'cool pop culture tie-ins' are a reason i have a really hard time finding a church to attend. sometimes there's just too much fluff.

I spoke to another pastor after the service who explained that it was part of a necessary survival strategy. To recruit members they need the attendants to understand even if they're not already initiated, so they can't use all these religous terms and biblical references because they'd be unable to reach newcomers. I was actually disappointed since the pentecostal movement is (in)famous for the speaking in tongues and religious ecstacy of their charismatic sermons. They actually told the members to refrain from doing so as not look like fanatic Jesus freaks since the church is located right in central Stockholm and every sermon is open for the public.

as far as creating a moral society, i take a really Fi approach to that whole idea. i have a kind of a 'thing' with the word religion. religion is the physical practice of spirituality. the problem is, as soon as things are put into the physical realm, the dirty hands and minds of man are all over them. so, like the little fourth grader, i think we should all seek guidance as to our own personal 'religion' at any given moment. how can i live out what i'm spiritually convicted of? what is 'right' in this situation? this also calls into the ring the question of spiritual maturity. it's a process. and i believe that where i'm at is much different from someone who's had a strong spiritual life for decades and decades. are we called to the same 'religion'? no way. i'm gonna get things wrong more, but that doesn't mean that my practice is wrong. i'm doing my best where i'm at, and none of us, not even the most spiritually mature, is on par with God.

This individual approach to spirituality is actually what's on the rise right now. People move from collective beliefs to personal beliefs, often picking influences from many New Age beliefs and Eastern religions, and have a personal relationship to the divine rather than belonging to a denomination. It's also interesting that the respect for other people's beliefs grows parallelly with the increase of individual spirituality, since the attitude is that everyone's allowed to find their own path and there's no clear right or wrong. So perhaps you're on the right track here.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I have always been a non-believer. Until now.

 

[wildflower]

Yeah, I was only responding to what I thought was problematic with [MENTION=14074]wildflower[/MENTION]'s example.

ah, but there is nothing wrong with my example of prayer being answered and i think you know it. so, you try to manufacture problems in it because you just don't want to believe. i think on some level you probably even know that but you are not honest enough to admit it. there is nothing new under the sun. people didn't believe jesus when he did miracles right in front of him and even when he raised the dead. if you must know a big part of the conference was all about helping the poor in the developing world. yeah, but my friend was lying, right.

 

[Hive]

ah, but there is nothing wrong with my example of prayer being answered and i think you know it.

I still think so. Thousands and thousands of people pray for things every day. Of course circumstances will align making it look like some of them were answered. But what about all of those that weren't? If you disregard all of those, you're just resorting to confirmation bias.

so, you try to manufacture problems in it because you just don't want to believe. i think on some level you probably even know that but you are not honest enough to admit it. there is nothing new under the sun. people didn't believe jesus when he did miracles right in front of him and even when he raised the dead. if you must know a big part of the conference was all about helping the poor in the developing world. yeah, but my friend was lying, right.

So the trip was about something important and not just for fun, sure. Doesn't make it any less likely that she was not honest about how she got the money.

 

[wildflower]

[MENTION=11809]Hive[/MENTION] you know if i thought you had actual honest questions about christianity i'd bother to answer, but it's painfully obvious you don't when you stoop to accusing my friend of lying. sorry, but you've lost all credibility with me. good day and please don't quote/mention me again.

 

[OptoGypsy]

So its the GOP you have a problem with not, Christians?

What's your problem with the GOP?

It contradicts the bible itself and since most Christians are republicans they aren't living Christ-like lives therefore are hypocrites. Do you want me to tell you in what I personally don't like with the party or why Christians shouldn't support the party?

I'm an independent that doesn't like the Republicans since they aren't taking care of those in poverty, the school sucks, they want to keep drugs banned. health care and the Open Market is being controlled by those with the money A.K.A The federal reserve. I could also care less for the trickling down economy theory since it's literally saying that we are going to piss on you

I hate the liberals for reasons that they are a barrier to free thought they are imposing things that you can and can't talk about and how the hell are we supposed to save the planet when we can't save ourselves the planet doesn't need saving we do.

If I was going to join a party it would be the libertarians for the sake of my liberties

I'm more pro socialist then capitalist unless the capitalist has strong regulations

I also think that war is the biggest competition, people kill one another for self-esteem issues. Men love to compete on the fear that their dicks might be inadequate...

 

[OptoGypsy]

I spoke to another pastor after the service who explained that it was part of a necessary survival strategy. To recruit members they need the attendants to understand even if they're not already initiated, so they can't use all these religous terms and biblical references because they'd be unable to reach newcomers. I was actually disappointed since the pentecostal movement is (in)famous for the speaking in tongues and religous ecstacy of their charismatic sermons. They actually told the members to refrain from doing so as not look like fanatic Jesus freaks since the church is located right in central Stockholm and every sermon is open for the public.



This individual approach to spirituality is actually what's on the rise right now. People move from collective beliefs to personal beliefs, often picking influences from many New Age beliefs and Eastern religions, and have a personal relationship to the divine rather than belonging to a denomination. It's also interesting that the respect for other people's beliefs grows parallelly with the increase of individual spirituality, since the attitude is that everyone's allowed to find their own path and there's no clear right or wrong. So perhaps you're on the right track here.

Yup and the Pentecostal church may be the best (in Christianity) simply for the ecstasy/Emotional feeling/presence and you don't even need a lawyer unlike the catholic church [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] my parents Church lives by your ideals of what the Church should look like the vision is awesome in practice