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  1. #21
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    If there's one way to get a thread rolling, it's title it "Christianity."

    Anyone that says that there definitely is or is not a god, is an idiot. You can't prove that. Like many have mentioned, it's a faith on both sides. I prefer the "I don't know" religion.

    Humans are far too stupid to know. We're more or less chimpanzees that have invented a variety of very advanced sticks.

    Not to say that ritual and prayer, of any religion or personal belief, can't be helpful.

    Prayer can be very good for the person praying. And if through prayer, that person helps someone else, it can be good for others too. "I'll be praying for you" seems more harmful than helpful. It's like, "Well it's in God's hands now! My work here is done." It can be a nice sentiment though.

    I once heard the phrase "Prayer Warriors" and I thought, those must be the wussiest warriors and the face of the planet.

    The best part of Christianity in many countries is not the religion itself, but the community that revolves around it. The people, the friendships.
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  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    The best part of Christianity in many countries is not the religion itself, but the community that revolves around it. The people, the friendships.
    I think that's where a lot of the churches suceed and where I felt the most loss when I left church. A potential weakness is that some churches demand a homogeneous group (you're expected to hold certain political and theological beliefs or you can find yourself marginalized), but basically you can rest assured that if you need someone to watch your kids, or you need money, or a family member is in the hospital and you need food/basic needs looked after, well, the church often really does step in. You also have community events that you can attend and have that support network in place, so you never have to spend a holiday alone. Those benefits are more communal than nature.

    I think if you're someone who also is part of the homogeneous majority, you can develop some very meaningful relationships. For me, I never really fit in anyway, so I never really had close relationships in the church; I found those people outside, since they were more accepting of my differences from the standard views and I could be myself / be more open.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Its ironic how today, Christians say things like "faith does not require proof", and it is accepted as a reality of Christianity that faith exists without proof.

    In the middle ages, in Europe, however, "proof" that God existed abounded, which is why Galilieo was persecuted, scientists making claims discounting people's supposed proofs in God were persecuted.

    Now that every "proof" the church has had has been discounted("how could the universe exist without a 'prime motor'" - what a crock), they say that faith in the invisible is enough.

    Not trying to offend anyone's beliefs as I know there are some Christians on the board but I just wanted to say that to remind everyone that faith hasnt always been the only "trump card" Christians have had.

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    since debating this stuff is unproductive i just want to respond to a couple things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    Rather, I think the evidence appears when you're already a believer.
    i've heard nonchristians say things like this before and i think it is partly true and partly untrue. i have found when people talk about their stories of coming to faith (conversion stories) many people, myself included, did not go looking for God but God just showed up in their lives be it a small event, a series of events or a big event. i thought church was a pointless, waste of time when God blindsided me. yes, it's easier to accept faith in God if a person isn't closed off and hasn't already made up their mind, but i've even known of stories of people like that who have become believers despite strong resistance. so, it helps if a person is open but it wouldn't make sense when talking about someone coming to faith in christ to say 'they already believed the bible before reading it' (i've heard that one too) or believed in jesus before having an experience or finding evidence, etc.. all that happens after one has become a believer is great and yes confirms one's faith but that is a bit different from people who came to faith after experiencing God or finding evidence or whatever. for the most part those are two separate things kind of like B.C. and A.D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Its ironic how today, Christians say things like "faith does not require proof", and it is accepted as a reality of Christianity that faith exists without proof.
    i think it is more that we realize there is no 100% proof or certainty. i think most people believe based on something or a series of somethings such as answered prayer, finding the claims of the bible to be true, the inner witness, seeing a loved one's life completely changed after becoming a believer, witnessing a healing, hearing from God, experiencing love from other believers that they realize isn't just human love, etc. it isn't blind faith by any means. that would be quite foolish if you ask me and i've yet to meet a believer who came to faith in God out of blind faith. every christian i've ever known has a story of how they came to faith, meaning particular events happened in their life, even if was as simple as they saw their parents' faith and lives and eventually believed it to be true themselves.

  5. #25
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    @OptoGypsy, i think if you really want to check out christianity it is good at some point to go to a church gathering as it really is something you live out in community. it looks as if you might live in my town. if that is so and you'd like to check out probably the coolest "church" around send me a PM. i am part of a street outreach and we do church with the prostitutes, homeless, addicts, etc.. we meet in a parking lot on a weeknight in the town with the famous sign. no seating but lots of hanging out and free pizza. it's a fun crowd and there is a sermon too. actually, tomorrow is when we do our laundry night where the laundromat is open and we offer free laundry services for anyone in the community. that is the night visitors can come check out the ministry so if you are game let me know as it happens once a month. you can even bring your laundry if you like.

  6. #26
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    If there's one way to get a thread rolling, it's title it "Christianity."

    Anyone that says that there definitely is or is not a god, is an idiot. You can't prove that. Like many have mentioned, it's a faith on both sides. I prefer the "I don't know" religion.

    Humans are far too stupid to know. We're more or less chimpanzees that have invented a variety of very advanced sticks.

    Not to say that ritual and prayer, of any religion or personal belief, can't be helpful.

    Prayer can be very good for the person praying. And if through prayer, that person helps someone else, it can be good for others too. "I'll be praying for you" seems more harmful than helpful. It's like, "Well it's in God's hands now! My work here is done." It can be a nice sentiment though.

    I once heard the phrase "Prayer Warriors" and I thought, those must be the wussiest warriors and the face of the planet.

    The best part of Christianity in many countries is not the religion itself, but the community that revolves around it. The people, the friendships.
    I completely agree with you that their is no way we can know... God supposedly gave us a brain to use and to pray instead of using it is stupid. Besides everything is going to happen based of a Gods divine plan so if the God wants the prayer warriors to lose they will lose and they will lose in the pussiest way possible.

    The people/friendships will be the reason I take the title of 'christian'
    @Jennifer I agree with you on that it is important to be with others that believe in the same ideals that you believe in and so far I have been lucky that all the Christians that are surrounding me presently are huge fans of Free-Thought and that I'm an anarchist

  7. #27
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    i've heard nonchristians say things like this before and i think it is partly true and partly untrue. i have found when people talk about their stories of coming to faith (conversion stories) many people, myself included, did not go looking for God but God just showed up in their lives be it a small event, a series of events or a big event. i thought church was a pointless, waste of time when God blindsided me. yes, it's easier to accept faith in God if a person isn't closed off and hasn't already made up their mind, but i've even known of stories of people like that who have become believers despite strong resistance. so, it helps if a person is open but it wouldn't make sense when talking about someone coming to faith in christ to say 'they already believed the bible before reading it' (i've heard that one too) or believed in jesus before having an experience or finding evidence, etc.. all that happens after one has become a believer is great and yes confirms one's faith but that is a bit different from people who came to faith after experiencing God or finding evidence or whatever. for the most part those are two separate things kind of like B.C. and A.D.
    Perhaps. My main point is that you can't produce evidence for the existence of God. It's more like you interpret your own experience and reach the conclusion that God exists. But you can't prove it.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    Perhaps. My main point is that evidence for God is not something you can produce. It's more like you interpret your own experience and reach the conclusion that God exists. But you can't prove it.
    Hive is right, Christianity is simply another faith based machine that has been created into one huge easy to get into Frat. Christ has great philosophies and teachings, being Christ-Like/Christian is another lifestyle

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The fascinating thing about Christianity is that its founder was not a Christian. Yes, the very founder of Christianity was a Jew who followed the religion of Judaism. So it was the later followers of this Jew who created Christianity. And what chutzpah, they even went as far as to blame the torture and death of this Jew on the Jews themselves.

  10. #30
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The fascinating thing about Christianity is that its founder was not a Christian. Yes, the very founder of Christianity was a Jew who followed the religion of Judaism. So it was the later followers of this Jew who created Christianity. And what chutzpah, they even went as far as to blame the torture and death of this Jew on the Jews themselves.
    Instead of the Romans? The Pharisees are Jews and they started the movement that led to the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazarene.

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