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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default If it Exists does That mean It is Natural?

    What does it mean for something to be natural? Does existing in nature entail that something is natural?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #2
    WALMART
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    @Chawie showed me a logical proof recently that 'confirms' the existence of a supernatural realm

    i am thinking it is a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, but I couldn't quite make out the final points, so i'm not sure

    so far as i'm concerned - yes, existence is natural and nature is existence

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @Chawie showed me a logical proof recently that 'confirms' the existence of a supernatural realm

    i am thinking it is a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, but I couldn't quite make out the final points, so i'm not sure

    so far as i'm concerned - yes, existence is natural and nature is existence
    It IS a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, since he stole the idea from Swedenborg and then converted it into a transcendental idea versus Swedenborg's supernatural idea.

    But I'm asking if everything is natural, including man-made things.
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  4. #4
    Infinite Bubble
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    Yeah, anything that exists is natural.

    Although people commonly use it to describe something not caused/created by humans. I think maybe we subconsciously separate ourselves from everything else (nature). But that's an illusion.

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Yeah, anything that exists is natural.

    Although people commonly use it to describe something not caused/created by humans. I think maybe we subconsciously separate ourselves from everything else (nature). But that's an illusion.
    Consciously or subconsciously. Do you know what artificial selection is?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #6
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    I dont agree that everything that exists is natural, but how are we defining "natural" to begin with? I think people typically define "nature" as the things they take in through their senses, whereas the "supernatural" is what we dont perceive. People explain the universe in terms of root causes ie this causes that to happen. Theists typically posit that God is part of nature because he is the first cause. So when people speak of "natural" phenomena they mean stuff that has a cause to bring it into being. I personally beleive this applies only to the material/physical universe only - the universe is a series of cause and effect. But when you talk about the spiritual, Im not talking about ghosts and stuff like that but rather platonic forms which should exist - if you beleive they exist -in a non casual mode(ie they are eternal).

  7. #7
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Existence feels unnatural.

  8. #8
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    But I'm asking if everything is natural, including man-made things.
    if the universe is to be taken as a set, and all within no more than a subset, yes, all is natural

    even man-made objects originate dependently from what precedes their creation

    bacon said something like, "chance exists so far as the human will does"

    and that is where the load-bearing wall lies, with this argument

  9. #9
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I guess natural just means the original substance... the reconstructed stuff can be unnatural though.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I dont agree that everything that exists is natural, but how are we defining "natural" to begin with?
    "Natural" means "existing in nature."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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