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  1. #11
    Infinite Bubble
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Consciously or subconsciously. Do you know what artificial selection is?
    Yeah. I don't think artificial selection should be considered unnatural. Just a consequence of our existence.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    if the universe is to be taken as a set, and all within no more than a subset, yes, all is natural

    even man-made objects originate dependently from what precedes their creation

    bacon said something like, "chance exists so far as the human will does"

    and that is where the load-bearing wall lies, with this argument
    What if no human will exists? Does chance then exist?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Yeah. I don't think artificial selection should be considered unnatural. Just a consequence of our existence.
    How about NON-natural?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    "Natural" means "existing in nature."
    Ok but then what is "nature"

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What if no human will exists? Does chance then exist?
    I feel we will discover more to the nature of chance, these coming few decades.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I feel we will discover more to the nature of chance, these coming few decades.
    What is the nature of nature?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    You're guys hair splitting over word definitions is entertaining.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What does it mean for something to be natural?
    I'd say something free of intervention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Does existing in nature entail that something is natural?
    See above. A human could run an experiment on some mice and mutate some genes to run an experiment. These mice are not natural.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Natural diamonds vs synthetic or man-made diamonds. One exists in nature; the other is brought into existence by some intelligence. A human turd is considered natural because there's no intelligence behind its creation despite coming from an intelligent being. Modern corn is unnatural because it's created through artificial selection.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    I'd say something free of intervention.

    See above. A human could run an experiment on some mice and mutate some genes to run an experiment. These mice are not natural.
    Aren't you a hard determinist?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What is the nature of nature?
    To exist, so far as I can see.

  10. #20
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Aren't you a hard determinist?!!?
    Yes. I'm not sure I understand what implications you are implying though. Please explain.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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