User Tag List

View Poll Results: Your belief?

Voters
63. You may not vote on this poll
  • Christianity

    24 38.10%
  • Judaism

    2 3.17%
  • Islam

    0 0%
  • Buddhism

    2 3.17%
  • Hinduism

    1 1.59%
  • Agnosticism

    12 19.05%
  • Atheism

    13 20.63%
  • Unitarian-Universalism

    3 4.76%
  • Paganism\Wiccanism

    1 1.59%
  • Shamanism

    1 1.59%
  • Satanism

    4 6.35%
First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 132

  1. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    But not against the combined powers of irreligion!

  2. #52
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,281

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Sure it does, just most people don't define their beliefs by saying you don't believe in a bunch of stuff and then saying: whatever's left is what I believe. You just didn't offer any positive belief. I suppose that's appropriate given the nature of your beliefs (now that I know them).
    The reason I gave that response is because people often ask me that question, and I think it's strange that religious ideas are so pinpointed. There are so many things in the universe, but the question hinges specifically on whether or not I say I believe in a god or spiritual forces. The way reality works is, as far as I can see, very complex and unintuitive, so it is hard to give a positive belief that is actually satisfactory in their scope. I believe in the laws of physics, you could say that. I wouldn't be inaccurate, just incomplete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    You seem pretty smart, so I feel like you would know better than me--does that count as nihilism? It seems to.
    I decided to look up nihilism. One definition is the absence of belief in a greater purpose, so by that, I would be a nihilist. Regarding moral nihilism, I find my position much harder to explain. While morality is the experience of an individual, there are many individuals, and they are real, and they express their morality, and their minds are rooted in physical stuffs, so in a sense there is an objective existence to morality, but not in the way most people mean objective morality.

    I avoid the word nihilist because it has many erroneous associations and negative connotations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Also, how does that feel, to believe that? Does it kind of suck? I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. And obviously I'm not using that as an argument to prove you wrong (because I assume you don't equate truth with feeling good), I'm just curious if you have a hard time feeling whole and motivated with this worldview. I'm not sure (I don't know you and haven't lived out your beliefs), but it sounds like it would be a bit depressing sometimes. But I guess your motivation/needs are probably a lot of different than mine. Do you ever accidentally catch yourself projecting meaning where there is none?
    I am a depressive and anxious individual, but I cannot directly attribute that to my beliefs for many reasons. When I think about it, I find the alternatives would not make me happier. As has been pointed out for as long as the term existentialism has been around, the existence of God would not actually answer any fundamentally existential questions, it would just add one more inconclusive step. There's also the afterlife problem. I am a coward toward mortality, and I find oblivion terrifying, but I've given an afterlife many thought experiments and I've found that no matter what it is always disturbing. So it really makes no difference.

    There is a kind of concrete accessibility that is actually nice about my beliefs. I find it deeply unfortunate that the devoutly religious often seems to waste their entire lives away for an imaginary life that will never come. Wanting happiness, avoiding sorrow, and knowing that there are billions of others (far more than billions if we count other species) who have the same experience and whom's experience I can influence, is the best motivation I can think of.

    There's an old thought from Plato, which is that even if there were a god, it still wouldn't make sense to do what he says if he does not give a good reason, and if he gives a good reason, then he is merely an unnecessary middleman and we should act on the basis of the good reason, not god's will. Basically, the presence of god would not make the above cease to be my motivation.

    I think I've projected meaning onto things that didn't have meaning. I think virtually every human being has done that. It seems to be a kind of cognitive bias and I suspect it actually plays a part in why religion ever came into existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Do you think people who believe to be a little silly, then? I'm not trying to bait you or anything, I'm just curious. If you think it'd be better not to answer that, I totally understand.
    I don't know about the specific word to use. I can say that I think the belief is unnecessary, less accurate than other beliefs which should be easily available at this day and age, and that with the advancement of civilization there seems to be an according decline in religiousity.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #53
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    17,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    It is difficult to sum up one's spiritual beliefs in an internet post. Still, I find myself responding to this post. Why? I don't know. I guess I just want to put my two cents worth in, because somebody opened the forum and I thought maybe they'd like to know.

    I am Native American. Spirituality isn't something you can sum up or argue on a random internet post, at least not in my opinion. No matter how I would try to express my beliefs, short of a novel length monologue, it would still not come out "right" in a way that would cause people to understand. Sacred things would end up being sold as souvenirs and our ceremonies would end up looking like some kind of New Age knock off.

    To us, spirituality isn't something you can measure or quantify. It's a life way. I'm from a culture that believes the spirit worlds and natural world exists right alongside each other. We believe in what can only be described as other dimensions and that one can't go from this dimension into the spirit dimension while inhabiting a flesh body. Having said that, I, like many (not all) Cherokee people, am also a follower of Jesus.
    The Cherokee did not give us the Enlightenment.

    The Enlightenment was given to us by the Europeans of the 17th and 18th centuries.

    And the Enlightenment gave us the values of freedom and equality, evidence and reason.

    The Enlightenment gave us the modern world of modern medicine, modern economics, modern science, liberal democracy, universal literacy, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    The Enlightenment was the first to abolish slavery in the history of the world on 27 March, 1807.
    The Enlightenment emancipated women for the first time in history in 1900.
    And the Enlightenment is, as I write, bringing child sexual abusing institutions before Judicial Enquiries for the first time in history.

    The Enlightenment gave us universal literacy for the first time in history.

    By contrast the Cherokee oppressed women and children and other tribes.
    The Cherokee tribe were illiterate.
    The Cherokee were ignorant of evidence based medicine, modern science, modern economics, and liberal democracy, and Universal Human Rights.

    And today it is the New Age Movement that romanticises the Cherokee, and betrays the Cherokee at the deepest level.

  4. #54

    Default

    @Mole just a reminder, I won't engage you. Your efforts to evoke a reaction beyond this reminder are futile.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    For others, I only see religion as having a utility that could presumably be achieved by alternatives to religion, so it is not a necessary means to anything for anyone.
    Why do you believe that all people would be happier without a belief in eternal consciousness and free will (as there are currently no non-religious alternatives to these wants, and its extremely unlikely any will exist in the future)?

    As for the OP, I'm agnostic, but I believe that the existence of religion (not necessarily all religions) is a net utilitarian benefit in terms of aggregate human happiness, simply because of the aforementioned factors. I think that modern irreligion has more to do with the difficulty in maintaining faith in the supernatural without a societal 'sacred canopy' or a lifetime of mental habituation than with contentment within the parameters of a wholly secular worldview.

  6. #56
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Cherokee did not give us the Enlightenment.

    The Enlightenment was given to us by the Europeans of the 17th and 18th centuries.

    And the Enlightenment gave us the values of freedom and equality, evidence and reason.

    The Enlightenment gave us the modern world of modern medicine, modern economics, modern science, liberal democracy, universal literacy, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    The Enlightenment was the first to abolish slavery in the history of the world on 27 March, 1807.
    The Enlightenment emancipated women for the first time in history in 1900.
    And the Enlightenment is, as I write, bringing child sexual abusing institutions before Judicial Enquiries for the first time in history.

    The Enlightenment gave us universal literacy for the first time in history.

    By contrast the Cherokee oppressed women and children and other tribes.
    The Cherokee tribe were illiterate.
    The Cherokee were ignorant of evidence based medicine, modern science, modern economics, and liberal democracy, and Universal Human Rights.

    And today it is the New Age Movement that romanticises the Cherokee, and betrays the Cherokee at the deepest level.
    I finally get you, Mole. You're a British Colonialist from the late 1800's. Classification achieved.

  7. #57
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    17,865

    Default Vous est Formidable

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    @Mole just a reminder, I won't engage you. Your efforts to evoke a reaction beyond this reminder are futile.
    Yes, I remember, we are not engaged. And all my efforts only remind me resistence is futile.

    I can see how easy it is to fall under your spell.

    Your spell is invoked by the recalling of memory, a tried and true trance induction. Then, like a trance meister, you lock me into your spell with the hypnotic suggestion that resistence is futile.

    Formidable.

  8. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Yes, I remember, we are not engaged. And all my efforts only remind me resistence is futile.

    I can see how easy it is to fall under your spell.

    Your spell is invoked by the recalling of memory, a tried and true trance induction. Then, like a trance meister, you lock me into your spell with the hypnotic suggestion that resistence is futile.

    Formidable.
    Indeed.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #59
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    17,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I finally get you, Mole. You're a British Colonialist from the late 1800's. Classification achieved.
    It's true, you committed symbolic patricide of King George III, believing you could free yourself from your filial duties, leading you to a disasterous Civil War, naricissism and paranoia, armed to the teeth against each other.

    Whereas the future King George VII is visiting us today with his parents, Prince William and Duchess Kate.

    We are dazzled by the freshness of new life in baby George, whereas you not only wear the mark of the patricide, but also the mark of Cain from the Civil War.

    It is a Shakespearean tale: on one side, patricide, fratricide, paranoia and guilt, out damned spot; and on the other side, the miracle of new life, triumphing over bloody murder.

  10. #60
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It's true, you committed symbolic patricide on King George III, believing you could free yourself from your filial duties, leading you to a disasterous Civil War, naricissism and paranoia, armed to the teeth against each other.

    Whereas the future King George VII is visiting us to day with his parents, Prince William and Duchess Kate.

    We are dazzled by the freshness of new life in baby George, whereas you not only wear the mark of the patricide, but also the mark of Cain from the Civil War.

    It is a Shakespearean tale, on one side, patricide, fratricide, paranoia and guilt, out damned spot, and on the other side, the miracle of new life, triumphing over bloody murder.
    So, did you Rip Van Winkle it to the 21st century, or did you build a time machine using Issac Newton's calculous and galvanometric principals?

    I like my mythology better than yours.

Similar Threads

  1. type does not automatically equal religious belief
    By prplchknz in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 03-24-2011, 10:18 PM
  2. Share your spiritual beliefs
    By Night in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 120
    Last Post: 11-04-2009, 12:53 AM
  3. Spillover from "Share Your Spiritual Beliefs" Thread
    By Mole in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 11-02-2009, 04:39 PM
  4. Religious belief as a mental illness (with your hosts, Erm & Eck!)
    By EcK in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: 10-23-2009, 12:09 PM
  5. Reconciling Evolution to Religious Beliefs
    By Mort Belfry in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-30-2009, 11:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts