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View Poll Results: Your belief?

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  • Christianity

    24 38.10%
  • Judaism

    2 3.17%
  • Islam

    0 0%
  • Buddhism

    2 3.17%
  • Hinduism

    1 1.59%
  • Agnosticism

    12 19.05%
  • Atheism

    13 20.63%
  • Unitarian-Universalism

    3 4.76%
  • Paganism\Wiccanism

    1 1.59%
  • Shamanism

    1 1.59%
  • Satanism

    4 6.35%
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Results 31 to 40 of 132

  1. #31
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    What DO you believe in?
    To lead an examined life.

    Do you believe there is any purpose in the universe, or do you believe that we just arbitrarily create our own meaning, and try to make the best of this alienating situation?
    We create our own meaning, not arbitrarily, but through looking at the world around us, being curious about it, examining it, our role within it, as we've done since the dawn of our species.

    The only universal contemplation older than the concept of "god" is around death and dying. Understanding the inevitable finality of death, of our existence, but not believing it, refusing to believe it. We sought immortality. Thus, god was born.

  2. #32
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    The only universal contemplation older than the concept of "god" is around death and dying. Understanding the inevitable finality of death, of our existence, but not believing it, refusing to believe it. We sought immortality. Thus, god was born.
    I always thought the idea of an afterlife is rooted in our self-preservation instinct. It seems the thought of total annihilation is the scariest thing of all.

    Makes sense when you read about very secular, non-spiritual people suddenly believing in reincarnation, reunion with loved ones in a personal Heaven or even converting to a religion when the end is imminent.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    We create our own meaning, not arbitrarily, but through looking at the world around us, being curious about it, examining it, our role within it, as we've done since the dawn of our species.
    Sure, this is a reasonable point of view, I was actually just curious about what MP thinks, specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    To lead an examined life.
    Not that I disagree with you, I'm just curious why you think it's important, why does it matter?

    The only universal contemplation older than the concept of "god" is around death and dying. Understanding the inevitable finality of death, of our existence, but not believing it, refusing to believe it. We sought immortality. Thus, god was born.
    Maybe, sounds reasonable What about conceptions of God that don't really dance around the fact that you die?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    I always thought the idea of an afterlife is rooted in our self-preservation instinct. It seems the thought of total annihilation is the scariest thing of all.
    Along with trying to understand nature, and our dependence on it - attributing "god". Fear. At the root of it, fear of things we cannot control (hence, unknown).

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Sure, this is a reasonable point of view, I was actually just curious about what MP thinks, specifically.
    I know, I was just using your question as a jump-off point for my thoughts on the topic, as mine are quite similar to his (no belief in god, the supernatural, etc., etc.). Hope you don't mind?


    Not that I disagree with you, I'm just curious why you think it's important, why does it matter?
    Because, when the end is nigh, regrets will weigh down the peace you want to find. And by then, it will be too late. I want to die with a sigh upon my lips, not a gasp. Afterall, that will be the last moment of my existence.

    Maybe, sounds reasonable What about conceptions of God that don't really dance around the fact that you die?
    Can you clarify? I'm not understanding your question.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I know, I was just using your question as a jump-off point for my thoughts on the topic. Hope you don't mind?
    Not at all, I was just indirectly feeling out the reason you quoted me.

    Because, when the end is nigh, regrets will weigh down the peace you want to find. And by then, it will be too late. I want to die with a sigh upon my lips, not a gasp. Afterall, that will be the last moment of my existence.
    Sounds good to me. I hope that it matters in the end, I sometimes wonder if people who did many shitty things, but never fully grasped how shitty they were, die in peace due to their own moral ignorance.

    Can you clarify? I'm not understanding your question.
    Sorry, I should have worked harder on that question. I just mean, if the creation of God is just man grasping after immortality (which sounds reasonable), how does that account for conceptions of God that don't promise immortality?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Sounds good to me. I hope that it matters in the end, I sometimes wonder if people who did many shitty things, but never fully grasped how shitty they were, die in peace due to their own moral ignorance.
    Knowing who I am, how I am, I know that this is how I will find peace. Through an examined life. It gives me a sense of purpose. I, myself, often falter, sometimes greatly, in leading an examined life. Aiming to lead an examined life, is not everyone's aim. Their purpose differs. I find the thought of dying to be of a far greater contemplation, for me, than death. And, although we all will reach the inevitable conclusion, death, our dying, and thus, our living, will be what sets us apart, from one another. And that is okay. My dying will be the last experience I will have with myself. The only constant companion I had in this life. It's my final goodbye with the most intimate relation I will have had on this planet. That, with myself. For this, I aim to lead an examined life.


    Sorry, I should have worked harder on that question. I just mean, if the creation of God is just man grasping after immortality (which sounds reasonable), how does that account for conceptions of God that don't promise immortality?
    Even the promise of enlightenment, liberation, is a promise of immortality.

  7. #37
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    What DO you believe in?
    Well, when you think about everything in the universe that wasn't on my list, that leaves quite a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Do you believe there is any purpose in the universe, or do you believe that we just arbitrarily create our own meaning, and try to make the best of this alienating situation?
    I don't believe the universe, or existence in what every manner you put it, has a purpose. Purpose, meaning, and value concepts like good and bad, exist as the experience of sentient beings. The closest thing you can get to an objective form of these things is the collective aggregation of beliefs, and the actual physical structures that make the mind operate in the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    For yourself or in general?
    For myself it obviously has no utility at all. For others, I only see religion as having a utility that could presumably be achieved by alternatives to religion, so it is not a necessary means to anything for anyone.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #38
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, when you think about everything in the universe that wasn't on my list, that leaves quite a lot.
    Sure it does, just most people don't define their beliefs by saying you don't believe in a bunch of stuff and then saying: whatever's left is what I believe. You just didn't offer any positive belief. I suppose that's appropriate given the nature of your beliefs (now that I know them).

    I don't believe the universe, or existence in what every manner you put it, has a purpose. Purpose, meaning, and value concepts like good and bad, exist as the experience of sentient beings. The closest thing you can get to an objective form of these things is the collective aggregation of beliefs, and the actual physical structures that make the mind operate in the individual.
    You seem pretty smart, so I feel like you would know better than me--does that count as nihilism? It seems to.

    Also, how does that feel, to believe that? Does it kind of suck? I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. And obviously I'm not using that as an argument to prove you wrong (because I assume you don't equate truth with feeling good), I'm just curious if you have a hard time feeling whole and motivated with this worldview. I'm not sure (I don't know you and haven't lived out your beliefs), but it sounds like it would be a bit depressing sometimes. But I guess your motivation/needs are probably a lot of different than mine. Do you ever accidentally catch yourself projecting meaning where there is none?

    For myself it obviously has no utility at all. For others, I only see religion as having a utility that could presumably be achieved by alternatives to religion, so it is not a necessary means to anything for anyone.
    Do you think people who believe to be a little silly, then? I'm not trying to bait you or anything, I'm just curious. If you think it'd be better not to answer that, I totally understand.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Knowing who I am, how I am, I know that this is how I will find peace. Through an examined life. It gives me a sense of purpose. I, myself, often falter, sometimes greatly, in leading an examined life. Aiming to lead an examined life, is not everyone's aim. Their purpose differs. I find the thought of dying to be of a far greater contemplation, for me, than death. And, although we all will reach the inevitable conclusion, death, our dying, and thus, our living, will be what sets us apart, from one another. And that is okay. My dying will be the last experience I will have with myself. The only constant companion I had in this life. It's my final goodbye with the most intimate relation I will have had on this planet. That, with myself. For this, I aim to lead an examined life.
    Badass.

    Even the promise of enlightenment, liberation, is a promise of immortality.
    What if it doesn't promise that?

    What if God is this super smart clockmaker who built everything and just sort of lets it run, occasionally tinkering/fixing stuff. But you never get to see him when you die, you just exist and then die and that's it. But maybe when you die, he like absorbs your consciousness (maybe you were just borrowing a piece of his consciousness and when you die he gets it back) and by absorbing everything you saw/thought/experienced he gains a richer appreciation/knowledge of the subtleties of his creation? We're like cosmic reporters for this big, cigar chomping editor in the sky. Does that count as a promise of immortality?

  10. #40
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We become what we worship.

    And so we become like the God we worship.

    If we worship the Trinity, we become like someone who ordered Abraham to tie up his son Isaac and stand over him with a large butcher's knife, ready to cut him up alive. Imagine how Isaac felt.

    Under the law of Oz, this is child abuse. And when we realise the large knife is a phallic symbol, we realise this is child sexual abuse, for which you get 25 years in jail in Oz.

    And then the Trinity went on to impregnate Mary at the age of 11, giving birth to Jesus at the age of 12. This is also child sexual abuse with a 25 year jail sentence in Oz.

    But nothing daunted, the Father, the First Person of the Trinity, tortured His Son, Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity to death, as a scapegoat because we offended Him. This is also a capital crime in Oz.

    And everyday we hear, in the Oz Royal Commission into Child Abuse, of the crimes against children committed by priests and pastors and the cover-up by their Christian institutions.

    Just yesterday, Cardinal Pell, the leading Catholic in Oz, and number 3 in the Vatican, and touted as a future Pope, said the Catholic Church would take our insurance against future child sexual abuse by the clergy.

    It's like burglars taking out insurance against the effects of their burglary on their victims, or rapists taking out insurance against the effects of rape on their victims, or murderers taking out insurance against the effects of murder on their victims and their families.

    The good Cardinal doesn't seem to realise that child sexual abuse is a crime, and institutions that cover it up, are criminally guilty of the crime after the fact.

    But the Church worships a child abusing God, and so the Church has become like their God.

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