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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You cannot see into my mind, nor, apparently, understand the nuances of what I say. I know because they are my thoughts and my words.
    First you said time itself began with the big bang, then you contradict yourself and say "time in our universe began with the big bang" which is what I was proving all along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    True, but that has never been in question.
    So what was the question?

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Atheists believe both happens simultaneously.

    Christians believe "it" simply is.
    So how am I wrong by saying the forest requires an observer to exist? It's an age old question that can't be answered really.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    No because first you said Time itself began with the big bang, then you contradict yourself and say "time in our universe began with the big bang" which is what I was proving all along.
    I think they are the same. How do you suppose time existed before it began with the big bang? If 'it' existed in other universes, is it the same 'time'? Do we know anything about it, these universes themselves being hypothetical? So, what we know (as in: what we have sufficient reason to believe) is that time began with the big bang, that there is no 'before'.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think they are the same. How do you suppose time existed before it began with the big bang? If 'it' existed in other universes, is it the same 'time'? Do we know anything about it, these universes themselves being hypothetical? So, what we know (as in: what we have sufficient reason to believe) is that time began with the big bang, that there is no 'before'.
    No the beginning of time itself and the beginning time in our universe are NOT the same. If you studied anything about what Stephen Hawking says about black holes and M theory you would know that the explanation of other universes provides evidence of what is happening in our own universe. And if you were correct then where does matter go inside a black hole? black holes clearly exist in our universe.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    So how am I wrong by saying the forest requires an observer to exist? It's an age old question that can't be answered really.
    Well you arent I guess. But that statement is only one side of the coin.

    My point is that many people view life in the lense they want to see it. Atheists view themselves as god and masters of existence. Christians who are mistaken believe existence pupeteers us (aka god pupeteers us). However both perspectives are not are not wrong. The middle ground is one of yin and yang, where the external combine with the internal to form a complete picture that god gives us strength that only he can provide to control our own existence.

    Why do we exist?

    Why does existence exist?

    Who knows. Play the game or give up.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    No the beginning of time itself and the beginning time in our universe are NOT the same. If you studied anything about what Stephen Hawking says about black holes and M theory you would know that the explanation of other universes provides evidence of what is happening in our own universe. And if you were correct then where does matter go inside a black hole? black holes clearly exist in our universe.
    Then tell me why instead of merely alluding to arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Atheists view themselves as god and masters of existence.
    Nonsense.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then tell me why instead of merely alluding to arguments.


    Nonsense.
    "Why" is the question we have to answer on our own.

    It is answered from within in tandem with existence.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then tell me why instead of merely alluding to arguments.

    Sorry I guess your ignorance is my fault then.

  9. #79
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    "Why" is the question we have to answer on our own.
    Unless science finds it out.

    @prplchcknz If the Big Rip theory is right, there will "nothing" again.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  10. #80
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Unless science finds it out.

    If the Big Rip theory is right, there will "nothing" again.
    I'm partial to the idea that this universe has existed multiple times, and it keeps coming back til everything is perfect, like the creator is OCD
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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