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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    everything. like how do we know what we know about the universe, and does the universe actually exist (yes I know this is a common question) and if it does what was there before?

    Humans and what humans are perceiving are two different things, don't you think? The universe exists outside of us. We're here...but when we all go extinct..."the universe" (what we perceive) will still be here.

    What do you mean by "there before"? It's always "been there". Do you think that all you see around you wasn't there before "perceiving beings" could see? We're discovering it as we go. Amoeba don't have eyes, for example. That doesn't mean what we see isn't there for them. They just don't know it..

    Do you think, for example, the imperceptible spectra of light "wasn't there" before we discovered it? It's always been there, I thought.


    I said if I was guaranteed to come back. But if I chose to stay, I would. I'm actually not one to cling to this existence for as long as possible. I'm actually not as far as I want to be and I'm approaching 30...so I might go into the after life some entity offered, even if I wasn't guaranteed on coming back. though if I did come back I'd write a book, unless there's a contract saying I can't. Probably is. but i'll know, and people won't believe me, so there's no point.
    I don't even know how to respond to you sometimes...book? If you go and come back, I doubt "book deals" would be on the list of the world's concerns for it. You're too funny.

  2. #162
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    Humans and what humans are perceiving are two different things, don't you think? The universe exists outside of us. We're here...but when we all go extinct..."the universe" (what we perceive) will still be here.

    What do you mean by "there before"? It's always "been there". Do you think that all you see around you wasn't there before "perceiving beings" could see? We're discovering it as we go. Amoeba don't have eyes, for example. That doesn't mean what we see isn't there for them. They just don't know it..

    Do you think, for example, the imperceptible spectra of light "wasn't there" before we discovered it? It's always been there, I thought.




    I don't even know how to respond to you sometimes...book? If you go and come back, I doubt "book deals" would be on the list of the world's concerns for it. You're too funny.
    before the universe

    it could be, they like mystery. If everyone knew the secrets, than we could all rig life to have the outcome be they way we want it. It's like a surprise party, when we die. we don't know what we're getting into, so it's like you die, then, "surprise! this is where you're gonna spend eternity"
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    We exist simply because non-existence in the first person is impossible due to a paradox created by the infinite potential that comprises non-existence. (Non-existence is only achievable in the third-person reference frame provided by existence, i.e. conceptual non-existence)

    Assuming that this presupposition is correct, we are here because existence operates on the foundation of circular reasoning (existence exists simply because it is impossible for existence to not exist).
    God that's so depressing.

    Thinking about all those gravestones that have "RIP" written on them.. Nope.

    If that's true, which I believe it is, existence itself is hell.

  4. #164
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    We exist simply because non-existence in the first person is impossible due to a paradox created by the infinite potential that comprises non-existence. (Non-existence is only achievable in the third-person reference frame provided by existence, i.e. conceptual non-existence)

    Assuming that this presupposition is correct, we are here because existence operates on the foundation of circular reasoning (existence exists simply because it is impossible for existence to not exist).
    prove that it's impossible for existence not to exist, because i'm not convinced
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    Humans and what humans are perceiving are two different things, don't you think? The universe exists outside of us. We're here...but when we all go extinct..."the universe" (what we perceive) will still be here.

    What do you mean by "there before"? It's always "been there". Do you think that all you see around you wasn't there before "perceiving beings" could see? We're discovering it as we go. Amoeba don't have eyes, for example. That doesn't mean what we see isn't there for them. They just don't know it..

    Do you think, for example, the imperceptible spectra of light "wasn't there" before we discovered it? It's always been there, I thought.




    I don't even know how to respond to you sometimes...book? If you go and come back, I doubt "book deals" would be on the list of the world's concerns for it. You're too funny.
    I agree that things are, that's a tough one to dispute.

    But I also believe that things are only important as to their relationship to us. The only reason why we care so much about what is, is because we use it to propel and sustain our subjective experiences.

    Things exist, but without us they don't matter.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Wrong I'm surprised you still haven't understood how string theory provides a good explanation on how black holes and gravity work.
    Quantum Mechanics is our most accurate fact about the physical world.

    And Quantum Mechanics says there are no black holes because at the edge of a gravity-well time and space become chaotic.

  7. #167
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    prove that it's impossible for existence not to exist, because i'm not convinced
    If we follow the principle that something did in fact come from nothing (i.e. existence sprang from non-existence), then we see that due to nothing's lack of intrinsic properties (because nothing is nothing after all) along with the added principle a paradox is created.

    If something came from nothing, then there is infinite potential for something to spring out of nothing. If there is infinite potential for nothing to become something, then nothing will always become something. This creates a question, if there is infinite potential in nothing, and nothing is ultimately infinite, wouldn't this create some sort of equilibrium where nothing exists and still feeds existence (denoted something)? This question, however, is easily answerable. Nothing is unfettered from universal laws, and is therefore unfettered by any mathematical explanation for universal laws, which subsequently means that nothing has no mathematical structures such as infinite due to the fact that it would exist outside structures posited by existence.

    Ironically, this postulates that non-existence itself is non-existent (conceptual, and also a paradox), and this loop-hole can be used to explain reintegration.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    If something came from nothing, then there is infinite potential for something to spring out of nothing.
    We perceive by making distinctions. So what do we see with the distinction exist/not exist? And what do we see with the distinction being/non being?

    Well, we can say we would see nothing without these distinctions.

  9. #169
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    "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate."

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    We exist simply because non-existence in the first person is impossible due to a paradox created by the infinite potential that comprises non-existence. (Non-existence is only achievable in the third-person reference frame provided by existence, i.e. conceptual non-existence)

    Assuming that this presupposition is correct, we are here because existence operates on the foundation of circular reasoning (existence exists simply because it is impossible for existence to not exist).

    I would not have been able to articulate this as well as you have. But this is the deductive reasoning I have come to as a conclusion when I've pondered this in the past.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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